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Factorio absolutely isn't an idle game. What defines an idle game is that progression is achieved from time passing instead of from player action. For example

Factorio absolutely isn't an idle game. What defines an idle game is that progression is achieved from time passing instead of from player action. For example, cookie clicker is an idle game because you progress by waiting for your count to reach a certain number before you can progress. You can make that happen sooner by buying more buildings, which makes your production increase exponentially, but growth is given a hard limit by exponentially increasing building prices. Because growth and cost of growth over time follow the same order, we can simplify the equation to "progress = time". Factorio, on the other hand, bases progression on growth instead of time. Each step along the tech tree requires a certain amount of production growth, which can be increased exponentially against linear time. Because of this, time can be minimized by putting more player action into growth. The easiest way to see this difference is to note that Factorio can be speedrun in ~1:30, requiring players to be constantly acting to grow their factory. Cookie clicker can essentially be run at it's minimum amount of time by sitting idle and picking the correct upgrades at the right time.

dragontamer 5y ago
> What defines an idle game is that progression is achieved from time passing instead of from player action. Universal Paperclips makes it impossible to progress beyond any stage without player action, because the rules change so dramatically between stages. Universal Paperclips is widely considered to be one of the "Best" idle games ever made, and for good reason IMO. Its a free Javascript game and I think you should try it. I estimate ~10 hours to 15 hours for a new player, but an advanced player can finish probably under 2-hours. In any case, cookie-clicker is very mundane compared to the (better) idle-games / more critically-renowned idle games that are out there. > The easiest way to see this difference is to note that Factorio can be speedrun in ~1:30, requiring players to be constantly acting to grow their factory. Indeed, and I can speed-run Universal Paperclips too. ----- In any case, watch those speedruns at the tail-end, once the mines are set up and maximized, there's nothing to do but wait ~8-minutes for the rocket to get launched. You'll see the speed runners start building dumb inventions (circular belts and running in circles), or playing with cars / tanks at this point, rather than working. That's the idle-component of Factorio. Much like Universal Paperclips, Factorio has both elements of "waiting" for your factory to finish doing things, as well as a management-element where you need to manually perform a tedious task (ie: click on the "make paperclip" button in Universal Paperclips, or right click-and-hold to chop down a tree in Factorio before you can make an electric pole).
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  You can't progress without user interaction, sure, but you also can't progress without idling. Factorio, on the other hand, is always a little user interaction away from progress, and waiting both doesn't progress you and isn't necessary. Sure, idling is an option, but it doesn't get you progress.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Once you've built all the belts to carry iron to your furnaces, the plates to your circuit assemblies, the circuits to your Adv. Circuits, your Adv. Circuits to processing units, and processing units into speed-modules, and speed modules into Rocket Control Units... There's nothing to do but wait for your machination to launch the rocket. ------- Now its a game to set all of that up. But its also a game to reach space exploration in Universal Paperclips to build your universe-wide paperclip factory. There's a lot of intricate steps you need to do to go from a humble "click this button to make paperclip" into conquering the universe. Have you tried speed-running Universal Paperclips? EDIT: The core loop is IMO, surprisingly close to Factorio. In Factorio, you mine iron to make plates, you use plates to make assembly machines. Assembly machines can then make new miners, and then you can place the miners to make more iron and accelerate yourself. In universal paperclips, you click the "buy wire" button to get wires. You click the paperclip button to make a paperclip. You sell the paperclip to get money. The money can be used to buy more wires, and auto-cutters. The auto-cutters make more paperclips allowing you to buy more wire / auto-cutters / sell more paperclips. In both cases, the game "closes the loop", your inputs become outputs, and the outputs feed back in to accelerate the speed at which you consume inputs. --------- In theory, you can launch the rocket in Factorio by right-clicking on the mine and doing nearly everything manually. (There's a few exceptions: engines and oil can only be done by machines... but the point remains that you can do a significant portion of the game "dumbly") Similarly, you can theoretically conquer the universe by clicking on enough wires in Universal paperclips. (Not really because the numbers are so big that you'd never get there. But it could happen). But any decent "speedrunner" will optimize for the best route: which items to buy in which order to maximize the rate of return and accelerate towards the endgame.

dragontamer 5y ago

> What defines an idle game is that progression is achieved from time passing instead of from player action. Universal Paperclips makes it impossible to progress beyond any stage without player action, because the rules change so dramatically between stages. Universal Paperclips is widely considered to be one of the "Best" idle games ever made, and for good reason IMO. Its a free Javascript game and I think you should try it. I estimate ~10 hours to 15 hours for a new player, but an advanced player can finish probably under 2-hours. In any case, cookie-clicker is very mundane compared to the (better) idle-games / more critically-renowned idle games that are out there. > The easiest way to see this difference is to note that Factorio can be speedrun in ~1:30, requiring players to be constantly acting to grow their factory. Indeed, and I can speed-run Universal Paperclips too. ----- In any case, watch those speedruns at the tail-end, once the mines are set up and maximized, there's nothing to do but wait ~8-minutes for the rocket to get launched. You'll see the speed runners start building dumb inventions (circular belts and running in circles), or playing with cars / tanks at this point, rather than working. That's the idle-component of Factorio. Much like Universal Paperclips, Factorio has both elements of "waiting" for your factory to finish doing things, as well as a management-element where you need to manually perform a tedious task (ie: click on the "make paperclip" button in Universal Paperclips, or right click-and-hold to chop down a tree in Factorio before you can make an electric pole).

thomastjeffery 5y ago
You can't progress without user interaction, sure, but you also can't progress without idling. Factorio, on the other hand, is always a little user interaction away from progress, and waiting both doesn't progress you and isn't necessary. Sure, idling is an option, but it doesn't get you progress.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Once you've built all the belts to carry iron to your furnaces, the plates to your circuit assemblies, the circuits to your Adv. Circuits, your Adv. Circuits to processing units, and processing units into speed-modules, and speed modules into Rocket Control Units... There's nothing to do but wait for your machination to launch the rocket. ------- Now its a game to set all of that up. But its also a game to reach space exploration in Universal Paperclips to build your universe-wide paperclip factory. There's a lot of intricate steps you need to do to go from a humble "click this button to make paperclip" into conquering the universe. Have you tried speed-running Universal Paperclips? EDIT: The core loop is IMO, surprisingly close to Factorio. In Factorio, you mine iron to make plates, you use plates to make assembly machines. Assembly machines can then make new miners, and then you can place the miners to make more iron and accelerate yourself. In universal paperclips, you click the "buy wire" button to get wires. You click the paperclip button to make a paperclip. You sell the paperclip to get money. The money can be used to buy more wires, and auto-cutters. The auto-cutters make more paperclips allowing you to buy more wire / auto-cutters / sell more paperclips. In both cases, the game "closes the loop", your inputs become outputs, and the outputs feed back in to accelerate the speed at which you consume inputs. --------- In theory, you can launch the rocket in Factorio by right-clicking on the mine and doing nearly everything manually. (There's a few exceptions: engines and oil can only be done by machines... but the point remains that you can do a significant portion of the game "dumbly") Similarly, you can theoretically conquer the universe by clicking on enough wires in Universal paperclips. (Not really because the numbers are so big that you'd never get there. But it could happen). But any decent "speedrunner" will optimize for the best route: which items to buy in which order to maximize the rate of return and accelerate towards the endgame.