3 ms·

I'm a big fan of em dashes, which—when used like this—signal a parenthetical remark.

by a4isms 5y ago

robocat 5y ago
Parentheses are way better than em-dashes for parenthetical remarks. A set of parentheses make the syntax unambiguous. An em-dash is “that multifaceted, all-purpose punctuation mark that can act as a parenthesis, comma, colon, semicolon or even quotation mark”. Also I have spent too much time with computer languages, and I personally find the lack of spacing around the parenthetical em-dash to be an ugly syntax. Then again, I don’t closely adhere to the English rules of punctuation, because some of the standard rules make for ugly writing IMHO. Mostly I try to avoid parenthetical statements because they are often a sign of lazy wishy-washy writing. I guess em-dashes are OK in novels where the text context usually makes the semantic meaning clear enough. Edit: “The Chicago Manual as a style guide calls for no spacing before and after dashes. In British usage and in some style guides, spaced en dashes are used place of an em dash. Sometimes the space you see before and after the dash is actually a special character called a ‘hair space’ or a ‘thin space.’”. https://danieljtortora.com/blog/en-dashes-and-em-dashes-part-2 https://danieljtortora.com/blog/en-dashes-and-em-dashes-part... Edit: “Most newspapers — and all that follow AP style — insert a space before and after the em dash.”. https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html Edit: From C2: “U+2014 EM DASH is used to make a break—like this—in the flow of a sentence. (Some typographers prefer to use U+2013 EN DASH set off with spaces – like this – to make the same kind of break.) This kind of dash is commonly represented with a typewriter as a double-hyphen.” Edit: Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Functionally, I guess the only advantage that the em-dash has is that it fails loudly and miserably when nested. For example: Parentheticals -- already a bad -- although sometimes unavoidable -- habit of mine -- should never be nested. Completely incomprehensible. Parentheticals (already a bad (although sometimes unavoidable) habit of mine) should never be nested. Dangerously comprehensible. However, em-dashes do make the reading voice in my head change over to an old-timey radio announcer so that is cool.
  - cgriswald 5y ago
    > However, em-dashes do make the reading voice in my head change over to an old-timey radio announcer so that is cool. That is cool. When I read a parenthetical in parentheses it's like someone is talking to me while I'm trying to watch a movie: Even if the information is useful, it's annoyingly distracting. The same parenthetical in em-dash form doesn't have this same effect on me. However—and I hope you'll bear with me here—for the most part the information in a parenthetical is either not needed or important enough to justify its own complete sentence.
- a4isms 5y ago
  I am a writer, and fully conversant with the fact that an em dash signals a break in the flow of a sentence, and one such use of a break in the flow is to use two of them to introduce a remark about the sentence itself, and then return to the sentence. If you think parentheses are "way better," use them as you see fit. I can't imagine using both in the same sentence, but both are in my toolbox and I use whichever one suits the tone and content I'm communicating. (I often prefer parentheses for complete sentences.) As for you spending too much time with computer languages and not liking the lack of spacing around em dashes, I believe you but don't share your taste at all. What am I to make of 1+(2*3)? Why do we not need spaces around operators and parentheses in arithmetic, but somehow it's ugly in prose? Why are you ok with no space between the last word of this sentence and the interrogative? If you don't like a lack of spaces around em dashes, what do you think about "quotes?" I am extremely familiar with en dashes and thin spaces. When writing text intended to be set with variable width, I put thin spaces on either side of en dashes but not em dashes. So I use thin spaces around an en dash 3 - 4 times a day. What you have is a kind of taste. It's not universal. But it's yours, and if it serves you and your readers, it's fine.

I'm a big fan of em dashes, which—when used like this—signal a parenthetical remark.

by a4isms 5y ago

I'm a big fan of em dashes, which—when used like this—signal a parenthetical remark.

Parentheses are way better than em-dashes for parenthetical remarks. A set of parentheses make the syntax unambiguous. An em-dash is “that multifaceted, all-purpose punctuation mark that can act as a parenthesis, comma, colon, semicolon or even quotation mark”. Also I have spent too much time with computer languages, and I personally find the lack of spacing around the parenthetical em-dash to be an ugly syntax. Then again, I don’t closely adhere to the English rules of punctuation, because some of the standard rules make for ugly writing IMHO. Mostly I try to avoid parenthetical statements because they are often a sign of lazy wishy-washy writing. I guess em-dashes are OK in novels where the text context usually makes the semantic meaning clear enough. Edit: “The Chicago Manual as a style guide calls for no spacing before and after dashes. In British usage and in some style guides, spaced en dashes are used place of an em dash. Sometimes the space you see before and after the dash is actually a special character called a ‘hair space’ or a ‘thin space.’”. https://danieljtortora.com/blog/en-dashes-and-em-dashes-part-2 https://danieljtortora.com/blog/en-dashes-and-em-dashes-part... Edit: “Most newspapers — and all that follow AP style — insert a space before and after the em dash.”. https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html Edit: From C2: “U+2014 EM DASH is used to make a break—like this—in the flow of a sentence. (Some typographers prefer to use U+2013 EN DASH set off with spaces – like this – to make the same kind of break.) This kind of dash is commonly represented with a typewriter as a double-hyphen.” Edit: Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash

bee_rider 5y ago
Functionally, I guess the only advantage that the em-dash has is that it fails loudly and miserably when nested. For example: Parentheticals -- already a bad -- although sometimes unavoidable -- habit of mine -- should never be nested. Completely incomprehensible. Parentheticals (already a bad (although sometimes unavoidable) habit of mine) should never be nested. Dangerously comprehensible. However, em-dashes do make the reading voice in my head change over to an old-timey radio announcer so that is cool.
- cgriswald 5y ago
  > However, em-dashes do make the reading voice in my head change over to an old-timey radio announcer so that is cool. That is cool. When I read a parenthetical in parentheses it's like someone is talking to me while I'm trying to watch a movie: Even if the information is useful, it's annoyingly distracting. The same parenthetical in em-dash form doesn't have this same effect on me. However—and I hope you'll bear with me here—for the most part the information in a parenthetical is either not needed or important enough to justify its own complete sentence.
a4isms 5y ago
I am a writer, and fully conversant with the fact that an em dash signals a break in the flow of a sentence, and one such use of a break in the flow is to use two of them to introduce a remark about the sentence itself, and then return to the sentence. If you think parentheses are "way better," use them as you see fit. I can't imagine using both in the same sentence, but both are in my toolbox and I use whichever one suits the tone and content I'm communicating. (I often prefer parentheses for complete sentences.) As for you spending too much time with computer languages and not liking the lack of spacing around em dashes, I believe you but don't share your taste at all. What am I to make of 1+(2*3)? Why do we not need spaces around operators and parentheses in arithmetic, but somehow it's ugly in prose? Why are you ok with no space between the last word of this sentence and the interrogative? If you don't like a lack of spaces around em dashes, what do you think about "quotes?" I am extremely familiar with en dashes and thin spaces. When writing text intended to be set with variable width, I put thin spaces on either side of en dashes but not em dashes. So I use thin spaces around an en dash 3 - 4 times a day. What you have is a kind of taste. It's not universal. But it's yours, and if it serves you and your readers, it's fine.