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Way to make harder to get a job! For my first salary role I took half the advertised pay as I knew less than half of what they wanted. With this crap I'd just

Way to make harder to get a job! For my first salary role I took half the advertised pay as I knew less than half of what they wanted. With this crap I'd just not get the job.

rahimnathwani 5y ago
The law does not prevent this.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  The law opens any employer up to dozens of lawsuits if they hire people for less than what was advertised.
  - frumper 5y ago
    They still need to hire. Employers don't hire for the fun of it.
    - redis_mlc 5y ago
      > They still need to hire. But they don't need to hire in NYC, and companies look at other regulations when deciding head count. For example, you'll see a lot of startups freeze hiring at employee #49, since in the US (and other countries), there's a ton of HR requirements that kick in, including submitting IRS documents on magnetic tape. One of Netscape's early advantages was that since they knew they would hire thousands of people, they skipped over all of the entry-level HR systems and started with enterprise-level systems. It was controversial at the time, but turned out to be the correct decision (the first exec was from SGI, so knew what growth looked like.)
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > The law opens any employer up to dozens of lawsuits if they hire people for less than what was advertised. If it actually does do that, then spell out why that's the case (e.g. what's the penalty for hiring someone for a salary outside the posted range)? The OP makes it sound like this is only to address certain information asymmetries in salary negotiation: > Currently, New York City employers are allowed to withhold pay information until the end of the hiring process. > Advocates of the bill argue that this forces applications into unequal negotiations throughout the hiring process without the critical piece of knowledge around salary. > “Lack of salary transparency is discriminatory and anti-worker,” said Rosenthal. “Every New Yorker should have the right to determine whether they will be able to support themselves and their family when they apply for a job. It is time to level the playing field, and restore some dignity to New Yorkers seeking employment.” > ...Job postings without salary range information can be reported to the city’s Commission on Human Rights. Based on the article, I see no reason why someone would be prevented from consenting to pay below the position's current minimum, so long as they have full knowledge that is what they are in fact doing.
    - 999900000999 5y ago
      >Based on the article, I see no reason why someone would be prevented from consenting to pay below the position's current minimum, so long as they have full knowledge that is what they are in fact doing As they say, the path to Hell is paved with good intentions, I see no reason why an HR department would take the risk. When I was in my early 20s I had no degree or real experience. With misguided laws like this I wouldn't of been offered a job. It's not on your employer to pay you 100k for your first job. You endure making a bit less for a while. Then about 3 years later you get your 100k job
      - tablespoon 5y ago
        > As they say, the path to Hell is paved with good intentions... The other path to Hell is to not act on good intentions. > With misguided laws like this I wouldn't of been offered a job. No, you're just making that assumption.
        rytcio 5y ago
        > The other path to Hell is to not act on good intentions. Only if you ignore unintended consequences
        tablespoon 5y ago
        > Only if you ignore unintended consequences Some people seem to think the hand-waved threat of "unintended consequences" should be enough to kill any policy they happen to dislike. It's not. I'm tired of the broken record fearmongering about unintended consequences, especially when it's paired (as it always is) with no constructive alternative to address the problem in question. It's an unpersuasive attempt at preventing improvement to the status quo.
        999900000999 5y ago
        I don't see anything that needs improving. If you don't have the courage to ask how much the job pays on the first call that's your problem. If you agree to a certain wage that's what you agreed to.
eschewobfuscat 5y ago
This hasn't caused jobs to disappear in Colorado, which has a similar law.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
- 999900000999 5y ago
  >Colorado remote workers need not apply: Companies avoid state due to salary-posting law https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/26/colorado-remote-work-job-postings-salary-range/ https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/26/colorado-remote-work-j...
- missedthecue 5y ago
  For remote work it has. I see postings all the time "Residents of Colorado are ineligible for this position"
- Kranar 5y ago
  Several companies refuse to hire from Colorado over its law: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/remote-jobs-colorado-equal-pay/619581/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/remote-...
  - eschewobfuscat 5y ago
    And these are all anecdotes. The unemployment rate has followed the national trend for Colorado, and there does not appear to be a shortage of remote work for software engineers.
millzlane 5y ago
I don't even waste my time applying if I don't know what to expect for compensation. So it's already hard to get a job.

Way to make harder to get a job! For my first salary role I took half the advertised pay as I knew less than half of what they wanted. With this crap I'd just not get the job.

rahimnathwani 5y ago

The law does not prevent this.

999900000999 5y ago
The law opens any employer up to dozens of lawsuits if they hire people for less than what was advertised.
- frumper 5y ago
  They still need to hire. Employers don't hire for the fun of it.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    > They still need to hire. But they don't need to hire in NYC, and companies look at other regulations when deciding head count. For example, you'll see a lot of startups freeze hiring at employee #49, since in the US (and other countries), there's a ton of HR requirements that kick in, including submitting IRS documents on magnetic tape. One of Netscape's early advantages was that since they knew they would hire thousands of people, they skipped over all of the entry-level HR systems and started with enterprise-level systems. It was controversial at the time, but turned out to be the correct decision (the first exec was from SGI, so knew what growth looked like.)
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > The law opens any employer up to dozens of lawsuits if they hire people for less than what was advertised. If it actually does do that, then spell out why that's the case (e.g. what's the penalty for hiring someone for a salary outside the posted range)? The OP makes it sound like this is only to address certain information asymmetries in salary negotiation: > Currently, New York City employers are allowed to withhold pay information until the end of the hiring process. > Advocates of the bill argue that this forces applications into unequal negotiations throughout the hiring process without the critical piece of knowledge around salary. > “Lack of salary transparency is discriminatory and anti-worker,” said Rosenthal. “Every New Yorker should have the right to determine whether they will be able to support themselves and their family when they apply for a job. It is time to level the playing field, and restore some dignity to New Yorkers seeking employment.” > ...Job postings without salary range information can be reported to the city’s Commission on Human Rights. Based on the article, I see no reason why someone would be prevented from consenting to pay below the position's current minimum, so long as they have full knowledge that is what they are in fact doing.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    >Based on the article, I see no reason why someone would be prevented from consenting to pay below the position's current minimum, so long as they have full knowledge that is what they are in fact doing As they say, the path to Hell is paved with good intentions, I see no reason why an HR department would take the risk. When I was in my early 20s I had no degree or real experience. With misguided laws like this I wouldn't of been offered a job. It's not on your employer to pay you 100k for your first job. You endure making a bit less for a while. Then about 3 years later you get your 100k job
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > As they say, the path to Hell is paved with good intentions... The other path to Hell is to not act on good intentions. > With misguided laws like this I wouldn't of been offered a job. No, you're just making that assumption.
      - rytcio 5y ago
        > The other path to Hell is to not act on good intentions. Only if you ignore unintended consequences
        tablespoon 5y ago
        > Only if you ignore unintended consequences Some people seem to think the hand-waved threat of "unintended consequences" should be enough to kill any policy they happen to dislike. It's not. I'm tired of the broken record fearmongering about unintended consequences, especially when it's paired (as it always is) with no constructive alternative to address the problem in question. It's an unpersuasive attempt at preventing improvement to the status quo.
        999900000999 5y ago
        I don't see anything that needs improving. If you don't have the courage to ask how much the job pays on the first call that's your problem. If you agree to a certain wage that's what you agreed to.

eschewobfuscat 5y ago

This hasn't caused jobs to disappear in Colorado, which has a similar law.

redis_mlc 5y ago
999900000999 5y ago
>Colorado remote workers need not apply: Companies avoid state due to salary-posting law https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/26/colorado-remote-work-job-postings-salary-range/ https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/26/colorado-remote-work-j...
missedthecue 5y ago
For remote work it has. I see postings all the time "Residents of Colorado are ineligible for this position"
Kranar 5y ago
Several companies refuse to hire from Colorado over its law: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/remote-jobs-colorado-equal-pay/619581/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/remote-...
- eschewobfuscat 5y ago
  And these are all anecdotes. The unemployment rate has followed the national trend for Colorado, and there does not appear to be a shortage of remote work for software engineers.

millzlane 5y ago

I don't even waste my time applying if I don't know what to expect for compensation. So it's already hard to get a job.