5 ms·

Trump's Big Border Wall Is Now a Pile of Rusting Steel

17 points by sebastian_z 5y ago

coolso 5y ago
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure the pandemic and ensuing poverty/economic sufferring is driving the migration more than the lack of existence of a stupid wall
  - coolso 5y ago
    Didn't the pandemic start in the very beginning of 2020? It seems a little too coincidental that the illegal border crossings would pick up dramatically as soon as an administration with wildly differing, near-opposite language on the subject came into office. Walls are important, otherwise we wouldn't all shut or lock our doors at night. But, sometimes, don't you think it's the symbolism that helps even more?
    - cultofmetatron 5y ago
      I'm an american citizen currently spending a bunch of time expatriated in Colombia. I've been all over latin America and talked to people from all walks down here. The most surprising thing you'll notice down here is most people dont want to go to america. They want to be with their friends and extended family. Making lots of money isn't a huge motivator for them. What is a huge motivator is violence driven by economic calamity. That caravan of hondurans? While Fox news is victim blaming juan for bringing his kids over the border, they overlook that people in juan's neighborhood were being killed and juan's daughter was being scoped out by a local bang for forced prostitution. They are coming out of desperation. And who's the reason latin america is in this situation? Well its complicated but it certainly doesn't help that US run international corporations spent decades sabotaging labor rights or the cia arranging coups and assassinations. The best way to be safe is to be in a safe neighborhood. That means making sure our neighbors are economically developed such that migrants will stay put in their own countries and not need to move to chase opportunity. Of course we don't do that because the US economy is also very much dependent on cheap exploitable immigrants to do the labor americans won't do. So instead we create this strange immigration policy that lets conservative white supremacists treat latinos as subhuman while we allow them to work at exploitation wages under the guise of progressivism.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > That caravan of hondurans? While Fox news is victim blaming juan for bringing his kids over the border, they overlook that people in juan's neighborhood were being killed and juan's daughter was being scoped out by a local bang for forced prostitution. They also “overlook” that the “local” gang is has a core of drug offenders hardened in US prisons and then deported, and on multiple levels is a product of the US war on drugs.
  - txsoftwaredev 5y ago
    The current administration has completely incentivized illegally entering the US by offering free handouts, including paying families millions in tax payers dollars. Illegal immigration was down throughout the Trump administration, with and without covid. Walls are very effective tools to protect property. They are used by millions of Americans and businesses to protect their homes and businesses every day. I personally have a fence, a type of wall, to protect my property and it's been 100% effective.
    - madengr 5y ago
    - epakai 5y ago
      This is false rhetoric designed to attack democrats and demonize immigrants as greedy. These same "handouts"/stimulus started under and we're touted by Trump. They don't apply to non-citizens ( I'm aware of exceptional cases of fraud or mistakenly mailed checks, but this isn't widespread). They were also part of the driver of fast economic recovery albeit at some cost of inflation we are seeing now.
- gtaylor 5y ago
  Our southern border is over 2,000 miles long. I doubt that the relatively few miles of wall that were built made much of a difference.
  - coolso 5y ago
    Well, looking at the graphs, and the record breaking numbers, it's clear something that the previous administration did, that the Biden administration is no longer doing, made quite a large difference.
    - epakai 5y ago
      A pandemic began? Nothing has significantly changed policy-wise since then.
      - coolso 5y ago
        Lack of enforcement, halting border wall building, and publicly stating that America should have a kind heart and basically welcoming illegal immigration with open arms isn’t a policy change?
txsoftwaredev 5y ago
- coolso 5y ago
- epakai 5y ago
  Is this sarcastic? Abbott has used the border to attack democrats despite nothing of substance changing there since Biden took over. It's just another issue that has always been, but is drummed up when they need to attack the other team
avgDev 5y ago
Who could have thought building a robust wall could be this hard? It was a silly project. If the US govt. really wanted to tackle illegal immigration they would give massive fines for hiring illegal immigrants and offer rewards to individuals for submitting any information resulting in fines. A wall is a massive waste of resources and a really expensive project considering the length of it. Plus a maintenance nightmare. It also doesn't offer a potential revenue stream like fines do.
- ng12 5y ago
  That's the dirty secret, isn't it? Many American industries are addicted to the cheap labor illegal immigration supplies. The media circus about the border wall was a distraction.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    In "The Nine Nations of North America", Joel Garreau put it like this (from memory, not verbatim): "This is all discombobulated in terms of traditional Democratic and Republican positions. "The Democrats tend to be quality-of-life people. They also tend to be in favor of the little guy. Well, here those two conflict. If you look at the long-term implications of letting Mexico move up here unrestricted... goodbye Zero Population Growth. "The Republicans tend to be law-and-order people. They also tend to be in favor of big business, who finds immigrants to be useful for low-wage labor. "This creates a very difficult environment."
- bruceb 5y ago
  Its not hard to build a wall. It was attacked again and again by lawsuits by pro open border advocates which slowed down funding and construction. "maintenance nightmare" Nah. People require wages, overtime, etc. Walls just keep standing. The opposition to the wall was not because a well built one Not work, its because it Would work. Which would lessen cheap labor wanted by some, and new votes wanted by others.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    They are easily defeated with ladders or shovels. Or, angle grinders? I'm a little surprised I haven't heard of people harvesting the metal slats for recycling.

17 points by sebastian_z 5y ago

coolso 5y ago

cultofmetatron 5y ago
I'm pretty sure the pandemic and ensuing poverty/economic sufferring is driving the migration more than the lack of existence of a stupid wall
- coolso 5y ago
  Didn't the pandemic start in the very beginning of 2020? It seems a little too coincidental that the illegal border crossings would pick up dramatically as soon as an administration with wildly differing, near-opposite language on the subject came into office. Walls are important, otherwise we wouldn't all shut or lock our doors at night. But, sometimes, don't you think it's the symbolism that helps even more?
  - cultofmetatron 5y ago
    I'm an american citizen currently spending a bunch of time expatriated in Colombia. I've been all over latin America and talked to people from all walks down here. The most surprising thing you'll notice down here is most people dont want to go to america. They want to be with their friends and extended family. Making lots of money isn't a huge motivator for them. What is a huge motivator is violence driven by economic calamity. That caravan of hondurans? While Fox news is victim blaming juan for bringing his kids over the border, they overlook that people in juan's neighborhood were being killed and juan's daughter was being scoped out by a local bang for forced prostitution. They are coming out of desperation. And who's the reason latin america is in this situation? Well its complicated but it certainly doesn't help that US run international corporations spent decades sabotaging labor rights or the cia arranging coups and assassinations. The best way to be safe is to be in a safe neighborhood. That means making sure our neighbors are economically developed such that migrants will stay put in their own countries and not need to move to chase opportunity. Of course we don't do that because the US economy is also very much dependent on cheap exploitable immigrants to do the labor americans won't do. So instead we create this strange immigration policy that lets conservative white supremacists treat latinos as subhuman while we allow them to work at exploitation wages under the guise of progressivism.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > That caravan of hondurans? While Fox news is victim blaming juan for bringing his kids over the border, they overlook that people in juan's neighborhood were being killed and juan's daughter was being scoped out by a local bang for forced prostitution. They also “overlook” that the “local” gang is has a core of drug offenders hardened in US prisons and then deported, and on multiple levels is a product of the US war on drugs.
- txsoftwaredev 5y ago
  The current administration has completely incentivized illegally entering the US by offering free handouts, including paying families millions in tax payers dollars. Illegal immigration was down throughout the Trump administration, with and without covid. Walls are very effective tools to protect property. They are used by millions of Americans and businesses to protect their homes and businesses every day. I personally have a fence, a type of wall, to protect my property and it's been 100% effective.
  - madengr 5y ago
  - epakai 5y ago
    This is false rhetoric designed to attack democrats and demonize immigrants as greedy. These same "handouts"/stimulus started under and we're touted by Trump. They don't apply to non-citizens ( I'm aware of exceptional cases of fraud or mistakenly mailed checks, but this isn't widespread). They were also part of the driver of fast economic recovery albeit at some cost of inflation we are seeing now.
gtaylor 5y ago
Our southern border is over 2,000 miles long. I doubt that the relatively few miles of wall that were built made much of a difference.
- coolso 5y ago
  Well, looking at the graphs, and the record breaking numbers, it's clear something that the previous administration did, that the Biden administration is no longer doing, made quite a large difference.
  - epakai 5y ago
    A pandemic began? Nothing has significantly changed policy-wise since then.
    - coolso 5y ago
      Lack of enforcement, halting border wall building, and publicly stating that America should have a kind heart and basically welcoming illegal immigration with open arms isn’t a policy change?

txsoftwaredev 5y ago

coolso 5y ago
epakai 5y ago
Is this sarcastic? Abbott has used the border to attack democrats despite nothing of substance changing there since Biden took over. It's just another issue that has always been, but is drummed up when they need to attack the other team

avgDev 5y ago

Who could have thought building a robust wall could be this hard? It was a silly project. If the US govt. really wanted to tackle illegal immigration they would give massive fines for hiring illegal immigrants and offer rewards to individuals for submitting any information resulting in fines. A wall is a massive waste of resources and a really expensive project considering the length of it. Plus a maintenance nightmare. It also doesn't offer a potential revenue stream like fines do.

ng12 5y ago
That's the dirty secret, isn't it? Many American industries are addicted to the cheap labor illegal immigration supplies. The media circus about the border wall was a distraction.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  In "The Nine Nations of North America", Joel Garreau put it like this (from memory, not verbatim): "This is all discombobulated in terms of traditional Democratic and Republican positions. "The Democrats tend to be quality-of-life people. They also tend to be in favor of the little guy. Well, here those two conflict. If you look at the long-term implications of letting Mexico move up here unrestricted... goodbye Zero Population Growth. "The Republicans tend to be law-and-order people. They also tend to be in favor of big business, who finds immigrants to be useful for low-wage labor. "This creates a very difficult environment."
bruceb 5y ago
Its not hard to build a wall. It was attacked again and again by lawsuits by pro open border advocates which slowed down funding and construction. "maintenance nightmare" Nah. People require wages, overtime, etc. Walls just keep standing. The opposition to the wall was not because a well built one Not work, its because it Would work. Which would lessen cheap labor wanted by some, and new votes wanted by others.
- klyrs 5y ago
  They are easily defeated with ladders or shovels. Or, angle grinders? I'm a little surprised I haven't heard of people harvesting the metal slats for recycling.