4 ms·

McCarthyism was after people with an opinion, I don't believe that's a good thing and that it's going to happen again in western countries. The current threat

McCarthyism was after people with an opinion, I don't believe that's a good thing and that it's going to happen again in western countries. The current threat here is a rise of criminality, having more evidence would secure more people, this bill was actually a try to "adapt to the current threats".

champagnois 5y ago
I do not really disagree with you. McCarthyism was before my time and I admit to having no understanding of it. I meant to say we should be creative in dealing with the ways in which totalitarian systems infiltrate our society and weaponize our public. Currently, we do not seemingly have a strong defense against what is happening. I know a bit about what our side does, and I also know what their side does and how they do it. 1337 folks are not enough and they only know half of what is going on.
- 1337shadow 5y ago
  But are you really off-topic or are you actually much deeply in topic? After all, why wouldn't it be the case here: making our own states weaker because "we the public will not negociate our privacy!" ? Is the public in question, strongly expressing their opinion here, really going to benefit from having a weaker state ? Is there no limit about how weak we want our state ? At what point does it starts benefiting forces which are hostile to our civilisation ? Has it even started already ? I think I figured your answer to that last one! What makes our state weaker is not this public, it's whatever forces weaponizing this public against our states, and indeed I'm aware about them, but the public is in the middle, we must win with arguments, by talking about reality, I beleive that's how we can wake up and face reality and actually debate solutions instead of hiding behind distopian scifi scenarios like we are doing here.
mellavora 5y ago
What specifically would prevent McCarthyism from happening again?
- 1337shadow 5y ago
  It's like if you're asking "what would prevent us from burning heretics alive again" or "what would prevent us from going back into the middle age again", or even "what would prevent us from buying slaves again". I'm not an expert of McCarthyism, I'm not even American and as such have not studied it a lot (barely read a wikipedia article about it and a couple of movies), I'd be more confortable answering "what would prevent us from going back into nazism"? Because I could there build an answer based on the current state construct and history. But, I wouldn't construct my answer about "one thing specifically", instead, on a whole context of things, such as: evolution, experience, education... It's a vague but extremely interesting question, I'm sorry I'm too tired to disgress as much as I'd love to but I suppose my answer would boil down to "we've made a long road since McCarthyism, we've learned to appreciate confronting ideas", it would be constructed about exactly why it's important to study history, keep a memory, and keep debating so that every single argument can be studied and refutated by anyone. Again, I'm not fearing hypothetical realities that look like scifi, but instead, I'm trying to solve problems we actually have right here in our shared present reality, such as criminality. It's fine if you don't want to help me, that doesn't make you a criminal, but it would be great if someone like you with your talent would like to help.

champagnois 5y ago

I do not really disagree with you. McCarthyism was before my time and I admit to having no understanding of it. I meant to say we should be creative in dealing with the ways in which totalitarian systems infiltrate our society and weaponize our public. Currently, we do not seemingly have a strong defense against what is happening. I know a bit about what our side does, and I also know what their side does and how they do it. 1337 folks are not enough and they only know half of what is going on.

1337shadow 5y ago
But are you really off-topic or are you actually much deeply in topic? After all, why wouldn't it be the case here: making our own states weaker because "we the public will not negociate our privacy!" ? Is the public in question, strongly expressing their opinion here, really going to benefit from having a weaker state ? Is there no limit about how weak we want our state ? At what point does it starts benefiting forces which are hostile to our civilisation ? Has it even started already ? I think I figured your answer to that last one! What makes our state weaker is not this public, it's whatever forces weaponizing this public against our states, and indeed I'm aware about them, but the public is in the middle, we must win with arguments, by talking about reality, I beleive that's how we can wake up and face reality and actually debate solutions instead of hiding behind distopian scifi scenarios like we are doing here.

mellavora 5y ago

What specifically would prevent McCarthyism from happening again?

1337shadow 5y ago
It's like if you're asking "what would prevent us from burning heretics alive again" or "what would prevent us from going back into the middle age again", or even "what would prevent us from buying slaves again". I'm not an expert of McCarthyism, I'm not even American and as such have not studied it a lot (barely read a wikipedia article about it and a couple of movies), I'd be more confortable answering "what would prevent us from going back into nazism"? Because I could there build an answer based on the current state construct and history. But, I wouldn't construct my answer about "one thing specifically", instead, on a whole context of things, such as: evolution, experience, education... It's a vague but extremely interesting question, I'm sorry I'm too tired to disgress as much as I'd love to but I suppose my answer would boil down to "we've made a long road since McCarthyism, we've learned to appreciate confronting ideas", it would be constructed about exactly why it's important to study history, keep a memory, and keep debating so that every single argument can be studied and refutated by anyone. Again, I'm not fearing hypothetical realities that look like scifi, but instead, I'm trying to solve problems we actually have right here in our shared present reality, such as criminality. It's fine if you don't want to help me, that doesn't make you a criminal, but it would be great if someone like you with your talent would like to help.