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All radar based braking systems in the market filter out stationary objects because too many false positives. To my knowledge there is no AEB system in product

All radar based braking systems in the market filter out stationary objects because too many false positives. To my knowledge there is no AEB system in production that could reliably avoided this.

xuhu 5y ago
Sccessful AEB test with stationary object: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  Unsuccessful one, by Volvo too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCr-XBWZaQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCr-XBWZaQ
- cbg0 5y ago
  The Volvo system is based on radar + camera and it's pretty obvious that that is the rear of a vehicle in front of the truck. It might not necessarily pick up every kind of stationary object.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Impressive but not really comparable. How would it perform at 75 mph?
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    It would do exactly what you would expect. It would increase the ABS pressure up to a limit that doesn't generate excessive G force to the passengers necks. The impact would 100% still occur but at a much lower speed exponentially reducing the extent of injuries to all involved.
  - propogandist 5y ago
    it wouldn't smash into the vehicle at full speed, like the Tesla
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
> All radar based braking systems in the market filter out stationary objects because too many false positives. Absolutely categorically NOT true. It may not fit your narrative but Front Radar electronics/firmware filter out stationary object ONLY if they are outside the vehicle trajectory envelope. The majority of false positives are due to overhead passthroughs which may fall within the envelope, if the radar calibration is insufficient. EuroNCAP tests for AEB include both moving targets AND stationary targets. [0] Even those low-cost Bosch front Radar assemblies in entry-level vehicles could have mitigated that impact. [0] https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/17719/euro-ncap-aeb-test-protocol-v11.pdf https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/17719/euro-ncap-aeb-test-prot...
- labcomputer 5y ago
  > It may not fit your narrative but Front Radar electronics/firmware filter out stationary object ONLY if they are outside the vehicle trajectory envelope. The first challenge is that cars do not always travel in a straight line, so the "vehicle trajectory envelope" is ill-defined. At minimum, the radar needs to be steered (electronically) to match the anticipated vehicle path. However, the anticipated path does not necessarily match the actual path. The second challenge is the size of the target. If you re-watch the video, you'll notice that the pickup is sideways, and appears to have collided with a sedan prior to the Tesla arriving. In other words, the radar target is approximately 2x to 3x the angular width of a normal vehicle. If you filter the radar returns to eliminate wide stationary objects (to, for example, reduce phantom braking caused by overpasses), you necessarily handicap it when detecting a truck parked sideways on the road. Putting on my ML engineer hat: One of the common themes in examples where Teslas fail to brake is that the target is stationary and very wide: A semi truck crossing a not-limited-access highway, a crashed pickup turned sideways in the lane, etc. etc. etc. > EuroNCAP tests for AEB include both moving targets AND stationary targets Your link shows only scenarios where the target is exactly positioned along the centerline of the vehicle under test. Additionally, the targets are only as wide as a normal vehicle--and if that weren't enough, the tests specify the use a combination of radar absorbing material and corner cube reflector to create what is essentially a point target.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
crackercrews 5y ago
Perhaps all radar-based systems filter stationary objects. But Subaru's stereo camera system reliably stops when driven at large cardboard boxes. [1] 1 https://youtu.be/Qk4zIqOiOjc https://youtu.be/Qk4zIqOiOjc
mrguyorama 5y ago
My Volkswagen AEB based on radar has warned for stopped vehicles multiple times.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
IME Subaru's radar cruise control will brake for stopped vehicles 100% of the time on freeways. (Although it's a little finicky on windy roads)
gamblor956 5y ago
To my knowledge, there is no AEB system in production, other than Tesla's, that filters out stationary objects in the path of the vehicle.
rich_sasha 5y ago
My Volvo has a system like this. I had maybe 4-5 benign false alarms since buying the car 4 years ago, and once it did stop me read-ending stationary traffic once. Never did it not react to my late braking.

All radar based braking systems in the market filter out stationary objects because too many false positives. To my knowledge there is no AEB system in production that could reliably avoided this.

xuhu 5y ago

Sccessful AEB test with stationary object: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
Unsuccessful one, by Volvo too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCr-XBWZaQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCr-XBWZaQ
cbg0 5y ago
The Volvo system is based on radar + camera and it's pretty obvious that that is the rear of a vehicle in front of the truck. It might not necessarily pick up every kind of stationary object.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
Impressive but not really comparable. How would it perform at 75 mph?
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  It would do exactly what you would expect. It would increase the ABS pressure up to a limit that doesn't generate excessive G force to the passengers necks. The impact would 100% still occur but at a much lower speed exponentially reducing the extent of injuries to all involved.
- propogandist 5y ago
  it wouldn't smash into the vehicle at full speed, like the Tesla

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

> All radar based braking systems in the market filter out stationary objects because too many false positives. Absolutely categorically NOT true. It may not fit your narrative but Front Radar electronics/firmware filter out stationary object ONLY if they are outside the vehicle trajectory envelope. The majority of false positives are due to overhead passthroughs which may fall within the envelope, if the radar calibration is insufficient. EuroNCAP tests for AEB include both moving targets AND stationary targets. [0] Even those low-cost Bosch front Radar assemblies in entry-level vehicles could have mitigated that impact. [0] https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/17719/euro-ncap-aeb-test-protocol-v11.pdf https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/17719/euro-ncap-aeb-test-prot...

labcomputer 5y ago
> It may not fit your narrative but Front Radar electronics/firmware filter out stationary object ONLY if they are outside the vehicle trajectory envelope. The first challenge is that cars do not always travel in a straight line, so the "vehicle trajectory envelope" is ill-defined. At minimum, the radar needs to be steered (electronically) to match the anticipated vehicle path. However, the anticipated path does not necessarily match the actual path. The second challenge is the size of the target. If you re-watch the video, you'll notice that the pickup is sideways, and appears to have collided with a sedan prior to the Tesla arriving. In other words, the radar target is approximately 2x to 3x the angular width of a normal vehicle. If you filter the radar returns to eliminate wide stationary objects (to, for example, reduce phantom braking caused by overpasses), you necessarily handicap it when detecting a truck parked sideways on the road. Putting on my ML engineer hat: One of the common themes in examples where Teslas fail to brake is that the target is stationary and very wide: A semi truck crossing a not-limited-access highway, a crashed pickup turned sideways in the lane, etc. etc. etc. > EuroNCAP tests for AEB include both moving targets AND stationary targets Your link shows only scenarios where the target is exactly positioned along the centerline of the vehicle under test. Additionally, the targets are only as wide as a normal vehicle--and if that weren't enough, the tests specify the use a combination of radar absorbing material and corner cube reflector to create what is essentially a point target.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

crackercrews 5y ago

Perhaps all radar-based systems filter stationary objects. But Subaru's stereo camera system reliably stops when driven at large cardboard boxes. [1] 1 https://youtu.be/Qk4zIqOiOjc https://youtu.be/Qk4zIqOiOjc

mrguyorama 5y ago

My Volkswagen AEB based on radar has warned for stopped vehicles multiple times.

Rebelgecko 5y ago

IME Subaru's radar cruise control will brake for stopped vehicles 100% of the time on freeways. (Although it's a little finicky on windy roads)

gamblor956 5y ago

To my knowledge, there is no AEB system in production, other than Tesla's, that filters out stationary objects in the path of the vehicle.

rich_sasha 5y ago

My Volvo has a system like this. I had maybe 4-5 benign false alarms since buying the car 4 years ago, and once it did stop me read-ending stationary traffic once. Never did it not react to my late braking.