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> It is very unlikely that even Kardashev Civilizations of type II might build magnetic ramjets with axial solenoids. Well, this is a bummer. So, likely unfeas

> It is very unlikely that even Kardashev Civilizations of type II might build magnetic ramjets with axial solenoids. Well, this is a bummer. So, likely unfeasible for type I and II, certainly unfeasible for us... and type III, if they exist, would consider it a toy?

varjag 5y ago
Kardashev classification is a form of log scale. There's a huge continuum between II and III.
- BruceEel 5y ago
  This is very true and I guess we should be weary of making assumptions about other civilizations' means and motives...
- ben_w 5y ago
  About the same scale of difference between a family of four and the entirety of human civilisation and industry.
- jandrese 5y ago
  I've always found the Kardashev scale to be kind of silly. It starts off with an extremely ambitious goal, and then goes up two more huge steps from there. To me it always seemed like a classification system that doesn't fully understand the scale it is trying to use. Or one that assumes exponential unbounded growth as a starting point. The cube square law is one that catches a lot of Sci-Fi authors.
bragr 5y ago
I mean when the Alcubierre drive was first theorized it required gas giant planet sized mass energy to work and refinements to the theory have gotten that down to something reasonable so I would be interested to see what problems can be worked around with further research. As for type III civilizations, my guess is they would think of it as a toy as the speculation about type III has them doing stuff like harvesting stars on mass for use in stellar engines and galactic scale engineering projects.
Sharlin 5y ago
To me it seems the paper's conclusion is more that to a KII civilization, a Bussard ramjet is already a toy. If you have the energy output of a sun at your disposal, laser propulsion seems like a vastly more attractive solution, except for the problem posed by deceleration which is not insurmountable. Indeed, the ~Mm scale solenoid discussed in the paper seems something that should be easily within the reach of a KI scale civilization if they really want to build one. Or several.
- BruceEel 5y ago
  Indeed. This is purely a guess but my hunch a is that something like Breakthrough Starshot may already provide a glimpse of what will turn out to be the most viable and practical mid and long term solution, even for us...

varjag 5y ago

Kardashev classification is a form of log scale. There's a huge continuum between II and III.

BruceEel 5y ago
This is very true and I guess we should be weary of making assumptions about other civilizations' means and motives...
ben_w 5y ago
About the same scale of difference between a family of four and the entirety of human civilisation and industry.
jandrese 5y ago
I've always found the Kardashev scale to be kind of silly. It starts off with an extremely ambitious goal, and then goes up two more huge steps from there. To me it always seemed like a classification system that doesn't fully understand the scale it is trying to use. Or one that assumes exponential unbounded growth as a starting point. The cube square law is one that catches a lot of Sci-Fi authors.

bragr 5y ago

I mean when the Alcubierre drive was first theorized it required gas giant planet sized mass energy to work and refinements to the theory have gotten that down to something reasonable so I would be interested to see what problems can be worked around with further research. As for type III civilizations, my guess is they would think of it as a toy as the speculation about type III has them doing stuff like harvesting stars on mass for use in stellar engines and galactic scale engineering projects.

Sharlin 5y ago

To me it seems the paper's conclusion is more that to a KII civilization, a Bussard ramjet is already a toy. If you have the energy output of a sun at your disposal, laser propulsion seems like a vastly more attractive solution, except for the problem posed by deceleration which is not insurmountable. Indeed, the ~Mm scale solenoid discussed in the paper seems something that should be easily within the reach of a KI scale civilization if they really want to build one. Or several.

BruceEel 5y ago
Indeed. This is purely a guess but my hunch a is that something like Breakthrough Starshot may already provide a glimpse of what will turn out to be the most viable and practical mid and long term solution, even for us...