8 ms·

It’s not like putting TSMC fabs in Japan is making things any safer. A China that makes a military move on Taiwan is going to feel emboldened to right more perc

It’s not like putting TSMC fabs in Japan is making things any safer. A China that makes a military move on Taiwan is going to feel emboldened to right more perceived historical wrongs. The US needs fabs on-shore.

makeitdouble 5y ago
> Why is TSMC building a plant in Japan? > Primarily to serve Sony and other Japanese clients.
bell-cot 5y ago
One could very similarly argue that the US needs to have a great many things - most of them far, far simpler than a fab - on-shore. Unfortunately, the US seems uncaring. If not oblivious.
- megablast 5y ago
  So many things you decline to name one.
trasz 5y ago
The US is on the opposite side of the Earth.
- traceroute66 5y ago
  > The US is on the opposite side of the Earth. Guess its my job to remind someone that the Earth is round. ;-) Go to Japan on your favourite map website, zoom out, and take a look to the right.
- chaosite 5y ago
  The US has military bases in Japan. In various other locations in the world, too, but also in Japan. edit: I think I may be missing your point.
  - trasz 5y ago
    My point is, US security is irrelevant here. It's about Taiwan and Japan.
jimbob45 5y ago
The US has Intel and China is highly unlikely to make a move on Taiwan at the peak of Taiwan's technological power. They're far more likely to wait 10-20 years to when TSMC is no longer the same powerhouse and then slowly come in as the benevolent helping hand.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  I doubt the CCP taking the Republic of China will be slow, economical, and political like we've seen them do for their other puppet countries. It will be abrupt and bloody. The ROC knows these strategies, the only way it will fall is by force and hopefully the US and other sovereign countries stand up and help against that when the day comes. It seems that the CCPs plan is to whittle away support from all of the ROC's allies first, then crush them.
  - trasz 5y ago
    "Abrupt and bloody" is the US way of doing things. China has no reason for doing it like that.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      The Great Leap Forward, Tiananmen Square Massacre, Tibet tortures, Uyghur genocide. https://www.theepochtimes.com/ccp-at-100-years-a-century-of-killing-and-deceit_3879274.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/ccp-at-100-years-a-century-of-... But please, continue to shill for the murderous authoritarian regime with your whataboutism.
      - trasz 5y ago
        I'm talking about current affairs, not stories from five decades ago, unless you want to talk about Indians, Vietnam, Philadelphia bombing, or Kent State. The alleged Uighur "cultural genocide" is nothing compared to actual genocide in Middle East, with one million random civilians dead because of American invasion. The fact that you're even mentioning Tibet, which, before Chinese invasion, was literally a feudal state with the ruling caste treating everyone else as slaves doesn't really help your point either. But please, continue to shill for the murderous American regime with your whataboutism.
MangoCoffee 5y ago
>The US needs fabs on-shore. Intel, GlobalFoundries, TSMC and Samsung all have fabs in the US. TSMC have a fab at WA and building one in AZ. Samsung have a fab at TX US have plenty
- Something1234 5y ago
  Yeah except most of them are in water scarce region. Texas and Arizona are going to be in trouble in the next 10 to 15 years WRT water supply, the mighty Colorado isn't delivering enough. The fossil aquifers are being depleted.
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    This is an interesting article about that http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2020/ph240/multani2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2020/ph240/multani2/
  - qchris 5y ago
    This is something I've wondered about myself. Like, if I was going to be building a foundry in North America that is supposed to operate 24/7 producing silicon for potentially many decades and required billions of dollars of ongoing investment, I'd probably try to pick somewhere in the upper Midwest like Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, or even Missouri. You might potentially get a little lake weather depending on where you pick, but the big risks like drought, earthquakes, wildfires, hurricanes, floods, and tornadoes would be much less likely, there's not exactly a shortage of space, and there's a number of mid-sized cities and some elite universities in the region that could both help attract and keep talent happy. Are the tax credits in AZ really that much more attractive?
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      I suspect it is a tradeoff between "cheap real estate" and "nearby California." But if I were in charge, I'd try to put some fabs as close to the Northeast megalopolis as possible while still being cheap. So probably like... Pennsylvania? Upstate NY? Hell, why not Maine? Better weather in the NE (which isn't much of a statement, Arizona is barely human habitable) and it might be interesting to experiment with some alternative tech culture to Silicon Valley's (more down to Earth, IMO).

makeitdouble 5y ago

> Why is TSMC building a plant in Japan? > Primarily to serve Sony and other Japanese clients.

bell-cot 5y ago

One could very similarly argue that the US needs to have a great many things - most of them far, far simpler than a fab - on-shore. Unfortunately, the US seems uncaring. If not oblivious.

megablast 5y ago
So many things you decline to name one.

trasz 5y ago

The US is on the opposite side of the Earth.

traceroute66 5y ago
> The US is on the opposite side of the Earth. Guess its my job to remind someone that the Earth is round. ;-) Go to Japan on your favourite map website, zoom out, and take a look to the right.
chaosite 5y ago
The US has military bases in Japan. In various other locations in the world, too, but also in Japan. edit: I think I may be missing your point.
- trasz 5y ago
  My point is, US security is irrelevant here. It's about Taiwan and Japan.

jimbob45 5y ago

The US has Intel and China is highly unlikely to make a move on Taiwan at the peak of Taiwan's technological power. They're far more likely to wait 10-20 years to when TSMC is no longer the same powerhouse and then slowly come in as the benevolent helping hand.

hunterb123 5y ago
I doubt the CCP taking the Republic of China will be slow, economical, and political like we've seen them do for their other puppet countries. It will be abrupt and bloody. The ROC knows these strategies, the only way it will fall is by force and hopefully the US and other sovereign countries stand up and help against that when the day comes. It seems that the CCPs plan is to whittle away support from all of the ROC's allies first, then crush them.
- trasz 5y ago
  "Abrupt and bloody" is the US way of doing things. China has no reason for doing it like that.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    The Great Leap Forward, Tiananmen Square Massacre, Tibet tortures, Uyghur genocide. https://www.theepochtimes.com/ccp-at-100-years-a-century-of-killing-and-deceit_3879274.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/ccp-at-100-years-a-century-of-... But please, continue to shill for the murderous authoritarian regime with your whataboutism.
    - trasz 5y ago
      I'm talking about current affairs, not stories from five decades ago, unless you want to talk about Indians, Vietnam, Philadelphia bombing, or Kent State. The alleged Uighur "cultural genocide" is nothing compared to actual genocide in Middle East, with one million random civilians dead because of American invasion. The fact that you're even mentioning Tibet, which, before Chinese invasion, was literally a feudal state with the ruling caste treating everyone else as slaves doesn't really help your point either. But please, continue to shill for the murderous American regime with your whataboutism.

MangoCoffee 5y ago

>The US needs fabs on-shore. Intel, GlobalFoundries, TSMC and Samsung all have fabs in the US. TSMC have a fab at WA and building one in AZ. Samsung have a fab at TX US have plenty

Something1234 5y ago
Yeah except most of them are in water scarce region. Texas and Arizona are going to be in trouble in the next 10 to 15 years WRT water supply, the mighty Colorado isn't delivering enough. The fossil aquifers are being depleted.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  This is an interesting article about that http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2020/ph240/multani2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2020/ph240/multani2/
- qchris 5y ago
  This is something I've wondered about myself. Like, if I was going to be building a foundry in North America that is supposed to operate 24/7 producing silicon for potentially many decades and required billions of dollars of ongoing investment, I'd probably try to pick somewhere in the upper Midwest like Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, or even Missouri. You might potentially get a little lake weather depending on where you pick, but the big risks like drought, earthquakes, wildfires, hurricanes, floods, and tornadoes would be much less likely, there's not exactly a shortage of space, and there's a number of mid-sized cities and some elite universities in the region that could both help attract and keep talent happy. Are the tax credits in AZ really that much more attractive?
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    I suspect it is a tradeoff between "cheap real estate" and "nearby California." But if I were in charge, I'd try to put some fabs as close to the Northeast megalopolis as possible while still being cheap. So probably like... Pennsylvania? Upstate NY? Hell, why not Maine? Better weather in the NE (which isn't much of a statement, Arizona is barely human habitable) and it might be interesting to experiment with some alternative tech culture to Silicon Valley's (more down to Earth, IMO).