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The reason the US has a Senate with two senators per state, along with a clause that makes it the only section of the constitution that cannot be modified by am

by zrail 5y ago

The reason the US has a Senate with two senators per state, along with a clause that makes it the only section of the constitution that cannot be modified by amendment, is because of the institution of chattel slavery. The slave states had a much smaller voting population than non-slave states and feared that majority rule would eventually remove their ability to keep slaves.

honkdaddy 5y ago
I’m not sure if you can say for certain the exact intentions of individuals who prepared the constitution hundreds of years ago.
- lesuorac 5y ago
  Why not? The founders were literate and routinely wrote down their thoughts (see citations at the bottom of wikipedia). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_S... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_C... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise
  - honkdaddy 5y ago
    You'll have to do better than linking the entire history of the US Senate if you want to prove that the only reason the US has two senators per state is slavery. I don't doubt that it factored into it at the time, but to tell people in Alabama that the sole reason their vote is valued how the way it is is due to slavery seems incredibly revisionist and ignorant to me. Consider that in Canada's House of Parliament, we similarly have votes in rural areas overrepresented compared to their urban counterparts. Did that system arise from slavery as well? Of course it didn't, and any Canadian suggesting so would be laughed at.
    - joombaga 5y ago
      > Did that system arise from slavery as well? Of course it didn't, and any Canadian suggesting so would be laughed at. Can you explain why? I probably have a childlike understanding of the histories of Parliament and slavery in Canada.
calvinmorrison 5y ago
Close, but no cigar! The Connecticut compromise certainly did include additions about slavery, but in the end the 3/5ths compromise REDUCED the population count for slaves states, decreasing their proportional power. States like Delaware, with small populations were in favor of it.
elzbardico 5y ago
The US constitution precedes the abolition movements by almost a century, slavery was widely accepted by the time the senate was created. This is false and revisionist. The reality is that the early US was a lot more similar to a federation of independent states at its birth than today. A senate ensured the spirit of a federation would be kept.
- nullstyle 5y ago
  "A True History of The United States": https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/612519/a-true-history-of-the-united-states-by-daniel-a-sjursen/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/612519/a-true-histo... This book definitely agrees with GP and disagrees with you. You might want to check it out.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    Thanks. it has true in the title. it definitely is the ultimate source of truth. Geez guys, just because ONE book says something it doesn't mean you have to believe it as the gospel.
    - nullstyle 5y ago
      Jesus Christ this community has fallen to shit. Shame on you
- throw10920 5y ago
  Interesting, I want to believe you, but while the Constitution was signed in 1787[1], while the first state that partially abolished slavery (PA) did so a few years earlier, in 1780. Was Pennsylvania not necessarily representative of the majority population? (the next few states abolishing slavery definitely come a few years later) [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/#:~:text=On%20September%2017%2C%201787%2C%2039,slavery%20and%20the%20slave%20trade https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-governm.... [2] https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/12/before-there-were-red-and-blue-states-there-were-free-states-and-slave-states/comment-page-1/#:~:text=In%201780%2C%20Pennsylvania%20became%20the,by%20judicial%20decree%20in%201783 https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/12/before-there-w....
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
This is BS. The reason we have the senate is because the small states (like NH and NJ) would have never given the constitution their blessing without a say in the legislature. Here's the 1802 house just to drive the point home. I suggest sorting by the "seats" column https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1802_and_1803_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Election_summaries/wiki/1802_and_1803_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1802_and_1803_United_States_Ho...

by zrail 5y ago

honkdaddy 5y ago

I’m not sure if you can say for certain the exact intentions of individuals who prepared the constitution hundreds of years ago.

lesuorac 5y ago
Why not? The founders were literate and routinely wrote down their thoughts (see citations at the bottom of wikipedia). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_S... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_C... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  You'll have to do better than linking the entire history of the US Senate if you want to prove that the only reason the US has two senators per state is slavery. I don't doubt that it factored into it at the time, but to tell people in Alabama that the sole reason their vote is valued how the way it is is due to slavery seems incredibly revisionist and ignorant to me. Consider that in Canada's House of Parliament, we similarly have votes in rural areas overrepresented compared to their urban counterparts. Did that system arise from slavery as well? Of course it didn't, and any Canadian suggesting so would be laughed at.
  - joombaga 5y ago
    > Did that system arise from slavery as well? Of course it didn't, and any Canadian suggesting so would be laughed at. Can you explain why? I probably have a childlike understanding of the histories of Parliament and slavery in Canada.

calvinmorrison 5y ago

Close, but no cigar! The Connecticut compromise certainly did include additions about slavery, but in the end the 3/5ths compromise REDUCED the population count for slaves states, decreasing their proportional power. States like Delaware, with small populations were in favor of it.

elzbardico 5y ago

The US constitution precedes the abolition movements by almost a century, slavery was widely accepted by the time the senate was created. This is false and revisionist. The reality is that the early US was a lot more similar to a federation of independent states at its birth than today. A senate ensured the spirit of a federation would be kept.

nullstyle 5y ago
"A True History of The United States": https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/612519/a-true-history-of-the-united-states-by-daniel-a-sjursen/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/612519/a-true-histo... This book definitely agrees with GP and disagrees with you. You might want to check it out.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Thanks. it has true in the title. it definitely is the ultimate source of truth. Geez guys, just because ONE book says something it doesn't mean you have to believe it as the gospel.
  - nullstyle 5y ago
    Jesus Christ this community has fallen to shit. Shame on you
throw10920 5y ago
Interesting, I want to believe you, but while the Constitution was signed in 1787[1], while the first state that partially abolished slavery (PA) did so a few years earlier, in 1780. Was Pennsylvania not necessarily representative of the majority population? (the next few states abolishing slavery definitely come a few years later) [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/#:~:text=On%20September%2017%2C%201787%2C%2039,slavery%20and%20the%20slave%20trade https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-governm.... [2] https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/12/before-there-were-red-and-blue-states-there-were-free-states-and-slave-states/comment-page-1/#:~:text=In%201780%2C%20Pennsylvania%20became%20the,by%20judicial%20decree%20in%201783 https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/12/before-there-w....

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

This is BS. The reason we have the senate is because the small states (like NH and NJ) would have never given the constitution their blessing without a say in the legislature. Here's the 1802 house just to drive the point home. I suggest sorting by the "seats" column https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1802_and_1803_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Election_summaries/wiki/1802_and_1803_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1802_and_1803_United_States_Ho...