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I've read a user comment on a Dutch new site that said this : It is a disgrace the labour union had to fight this, as it was the duty of the the Dutch governme

I've read a user comment on a Dutch new site that said this : It is a disgrace the labour union had to fight this, as it was the duty of the the Dutch government ( which should have worked to enforce its laws ).

jb1991 5y ago
It’s kind of hard to argue with that.
tgv 5y ago
Thank God we still have unions. The (current) government is only focusing on shareholder value. Workers, unite!
- jsiepkes 5y ago
  Don't forget that pension funds are also share holders. People lose theirs jobs because hedge-funds funded by Dutch pension funds trash companies for share holder value (V&D is a good example, look it up). The biggest irony is unions crying foul about hedge-funds but unions stay very silent about the fact that they fund pension funds... While the government might not always have your best interest at heart unions certainly also have agenda's of their own. Forcing everyone in to pension funds that have: * Not adjusted for inflation for ages; * Increased the age at which you get your pension with 5 -8 years; * Increased the amount you have to contribute to the pension fund; So basically every year you get less, have to work longer and pay more. Since the people who now get a pension don't want to make the necessary changes to the system (can't even say I blame them) I seriously doubt if in 30 - 40 years when I'm supposed to get a pension there is going to be anything left. And that's not even taking in to account incidents like pension funds where the piggy bank gets plundered due to the incompetence of unions and participants [1]. When they fly the proverbial plane in to the ground you are forced to go down with them. [1] https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/130172/Hoe-de-haven-miljoenen-pensioengeld-misliep https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/130172/Hoe-de-haven-miljoenen...
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    Supposedly we also live longer.
    - jsiepkes 5y ago
      Living longer is an excuse that only covers for the increasing of age at which you are allowed to retire. My grandfather retired at 59 (lived to be 89 btw). My retirement age is set to 69. That still leaves problems like not correcting for inflation and increasing the pension contributions unexplained. The pension system in it's current form is not sustainble forever because you need a multitude of people working vs people who are retired. It's a pyramid. The solution is rather obvious; People should save for their individual retirement. But since the people who are now retired (or going to in the next 10 years) don't want to change the system (can't say I blame them) the measures that need to be taken are never going to be taken. Because there will forver be "people who are going to retire in the next 10 years".
      - Fnoord 5y ago
        59 years, like Greece had. Doesn't work, not enough labour years. Pension funds a pyramid scheme, lol. Pension funds invest the money (not with high risk, but they can take some risks cause of the long tail) so you get more back than if you would save the money on bank. Even more so today than when banks still provided interest. They are also legally bound to have a minimum percentage of the funds, which is close to 100% (but not 100% which is OK since not whole population reaches retirement at same time). Some people will claim they're better with investing and speculation. Great! Earn your bacon with it or make it your hobby for all I care. Some funny people will play the cryptocurrency game (no problem) and convince others to join the pyramid scheme (fuck that). Someone's always funding that as it is a zero sum game.
Barrin92 5y ago
not a disgrace as much as completely expected and a lesson for people who still think that technocratic governance is going to deliver equitable outcomes rather than being simply captured.

jb1991 5y ago

It’s kind of hard to argue with that.

tgv 5y ago

Thank God we still have unions. The (current) government is only focusing on shareholder value. Workers, unite!

jsiepkes 5y ago
Don't forget that pension funds are also share holders. People lose theirs jobs because hedge-funds funded by Dutch pension funds trash companies for share holder value (V&D is a good example, look it up). The biggest irony is unions crying foul about hedge-funds but unions stay very silent about the fact that they fund pension funds... While the government might not always have your best interest at heart unions certainly also have agenda's of their own. Forcing everyone in to pension funds that have: * Not adjusted for inflation for ages; * Increased the age at which you get your pension with 5 -8 years; * Increased the amount you have to contribute to the pension fund; So basically every year you get less, have to work longer and pay more. Since the people who now get a pension don't want to make the necessary changes to the system (can't even say I blame them) I seriously doubt if in 30 - 40 years when I'm supposed to get a pension there is going to be anything left. And that's not even taking in to account incidents like pension funds where the piggy bank gets plundered due to the incompetence of unions and participants [1]. When they fly the proverbial plane in to the ground you are forced to go down with them. [1] https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/130172/Hoe-de-haven-miljoenen-pensioengeld-misliep https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/130172/Hoe-de-haven-miljoenen...
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Supposedly we also live longer.
  - jsiepkes 5y ago
    Living longer is an excuse that only covers for the increasing of age at which you are allowed to retire. My grandfather retired at 59 (lived to be 89 btw). My retirement age is set to 69. That still leaves problems like not correcting for inflation and increasing the pension contributions unexplained. The pension system in it's current form is not sustainble forever because you need a multitude of people working vs people who are retired. It's a pyramid. The solution is rather obvious; People should save for their individual retirement. But since the people who are now retired (or going to in the next 10 years) don't want to change the system (can't say I blame them) the measures that need to be taken are never going to be taken. Because there will forver be "people who are going to retire in the next 10 years".
    - Fnoord 5y ago
      59 years, like Greece had. Doesn't work, not enough labour years. Pension funds a pyramid scheme, lol. Pension funds invest the money (not with high risk, but they can take some risks cause of the long tail) so you get more back than if you would save the money on bank. Even more so today than when banks still provided interest. They are also legally bound to have a minimum percentage of the funds, which is close to 100% (but not 100% which is OK since not whole population reaches retirement at same time). Some people will claim they're better with investing and speculation. Great! Earn your bacon with it or make it your hobby for all I care. Some funny people will play the cryptocurrency game (no problem) and convince others to join the pyramid scheme (fuck that). Someone's always funding that as it is a zero sum game.

Barrin92 5y ago

not a disgrace as much as completely expected and a lesson for people who still think that technocratic governance is going to deliver equitable outcomes rather than being simply captured.