13 ms·

Dutch source only, sorry. Decision is retro-active to 2015 and Deliveroo should pay pensions back to 2015.

lnxg33k1 5y ago
Just when I thought the good news would stop, you make me even happier, to hell the corporate greed
isaacfrond 5y ago
The court earlier decided that Uber drivers are employees. Problems is that Uber does not adhere to the decision and that the Tax office seems unwilling to enforce it. We'll have to see if Deliveroo will stick to the decision.
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  If it's the dutch tax office, just tell them that Uber's owners are immigrants, they will for sure try to enforce anything on them
- lebuffon 5y ago
  This seems to be a thing now. Overt rejection of the authority of laws. Makes me wonder how long a civilization can continue if that attitude is widespread.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >Makes me wonder how long a civilization can continue if that attitude is widespread. We seem to be focused more on getting the stock market and the price of assets up, up, up, and calling that progress and a sign of prosperity for our society. The French and the Russian revolutions have shown society has a breaking point at wich the working class will revolt and behead the ruling class. However, that was over 100 years ago and today, the ruling class has much better surveillance technology and weapons than the peasants of today and can monitor and quench any uprising before it even manifests. Plus, the ruling and asset owning classes don't live within striking distance of the angry mobs like they did 100 years ago, but can live safely in a remote place like some island around New Zeeland and run their affairs remotely through a shell enterprise registered at a post-box in Luxembourg for example.
- timwaagh 5y ago
  The colleague who has to forcibly take all those back owed unemployment insurance premiums and no longer deductable business expenses from the affected cabbies has my deepest sympathies. Probably a few personal bankruptcies coming out of that.
  - Xylakant 5y ago
    I’m not sure how that works in the Netherlands, but in germany the risk of “Scheinselbständigkeit” which is probably the closest common analog resides nearly completely with the employer. The legislature wants to strongly discourage this behavior on the employer side. The best-case result for they employer is that the can deduct the employees share of social security from the last three wage payments, but no further. And that best case requires that there is no fault of the employer, which is a rare case. Given that European law is fairly well aligned when it comes to labor law, I’d be surprised if there’s an option to substantially dip into the cabbies past payments.
    - the-dude 5y ago
      > Given that European law is fairly well aligned when it comes to labor law, Is it? My impression is different. Do you have any links?
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        It's not well aligned. EU law sets some minimum bars every state has to clear, like 20 paid vacation days etc. but every state, can and does have it's own set of laws on top of the EU minimums. Before you get to EU courts, you have to clear the local ones first.
    - wila 5y ago
      In Dutch that is "schijnzelfstandigheid" and it exists here too [1]. However it certainly is not just a risk for the employer, also for the employee. If you should have been marked as an employee, but have been submitting your taxes as a company then you have also profited from tax benefits in accordance with that company status. It's pretty important to get this right. [1] https://ondernemersplein.kvk.nl/schijnzelfstandigheid-voorkomen-met-dba-voor-zzpers/ https://ondernemersplein.kvk.nl/schijnzelfstandigheid-voorko...

Just when I thought the good news would stop, you make me even happier, to hell the corporate greed

The court earlier decided that Uber drivers are employees. Problems is that Uber does not adhere to the decision and that the Tax office seems unwilling to enforce it. We'll have to see if Deliveroo will stick to the decision.

lnxg33k1 5y ago
If it's the dutch tax office, just tell them that Uber's owners are immigrants, they will for sure try to enforce anything on them
lebuffon 5y ago
This seems to be a thing now. Overt rejection of the authority of laws. Makes me wonder how long a civilization can continue if that attitude is widespread.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >Makes me wonder how long a civilization can continue if that attitude is widespread. We seem to be focused more on getting the stock market and the price of assets up, up, up, and calling that progress and a sign of prosperity for our society. The French and the Russian revolutions have shown society has a breaking point at wich the working class will revolt and behead the ruling class. However, that was over 100 years ago and today, the ruling class has much better surveillance technology and weapons than the peasants of today and can monitor and quench any uprising before it even manifests. Plus, the ruling and asset owning classes don't live within striking distance of the angry mobs like they did 100 years ago, but can live safely in a remote place like some island around New Zeeland and run their affairs remotely through a shell enterprise registered at a post-box in Luxembourg for example.
timwaagh 5y ago
The colleague who has to forcibly take all those back owed unemployment insurance premiums and no longer deductable business expenses from the affected cabbies has my deepest sympathies. Probably a few personal bankruptcies coming out of that.
- Xylakant 5y ago
  I’m not sure how that works in the Netherlands, but in germany the risk of “Scheinselbständigkeit” which is probably the closest common analog resides nearly completely with the employer. The legislature wants to strongly discourage this behavior on the employer side. The best-case result for they employer is that the can deduct the employees share of social security from the last three wage payments, but no further. And that best case requires that there is no fault of the employer, which is a rare case. Given that European law is fairly well aligned when it comes to labor law, I’d be surprised if there’s an option to substantially dip into the cabbies past payments.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    > Given that European law is fairly well aligned when it comes to labor law, Is it? My impression is different. Do you have any links?
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      It's not well aligned. EU law sets some minimum bars every state has to clear, like 20 paid vacation days etc. but every state, can and does have it's own set of laws on top of the EU minimums. Before you get to EU courts, you have to clear the local ones first.
  - wila 5y ago
    In Dutch that is "schijnzelfstandigheid" and it exists here too [1]. However it certainly is not just a risk for the employer, also for the employee. If you should have been marked as an employee, but have been submitting your taxes as a company then you have also profited from tax benefits in accordance with that company status. It's pretty important to get this right. [1] https://ondernemersplein.kvk.nl/schijnzelfstandigheid-voorkomen-met-dba-voor-zzpers/ https://ondernemersplein.kvk.nl/schijnzelfstandigheid-voorko...