3 ms·

Your logic is flawed. 1) "That some studies show similar viral loads" - does not tell us about the net transmissiblity of the different populations. You have

Your logic is flawed. 1) "That some studies show similar viral loads" - does not tell us about the net transmissiblity of the different populations. You have to get COVID in the first place in order to have a 'viral load', but that inference won't take into account those who don't get it. 2) From BC's late August Report (it was the first one that came up when I Googled): "From Aug. 13-26, people not fully vaccinated accounted for 81.7% of cases and 85.8% of hospitalizations." FYI they had 75% of the over age 12 with 1 dose and 85% with 2 doses at that time. (Same reference) The data is decisive and shows that the virus is overwhelmingly spreading among the unvaccinated part of the population - and clearly a factor in the R0. At that point, the unvaccinated make up ~25% of the population and 80% of the cases. 3) Hospital resources are being drained by the unvaccinated. There are some people who legit cannot take it, and there are some people who are, let's just say, 'truly mentally deficient' who we can't hold accountable for their actions. But the vast majority of the 'unvaccinated' are irrationally and irresponsibly making a choice that is not only creating a much greater burden to the Health Care system - but they are also materially helping the disease spread. ---> COVID mostly a plague of the unvaccinated and they are externalizing harm and cost to others. [1] https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0054-001704 https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0054-001704

busymom0 5y ago
> Aug. 13-26 Why are you using data from August when newer data is available and shows 76% of cases in Ontario are now in vaccinated? I even mentioned that Canada had under 10% vaccination till June 10, so vast majority of the vaccinations happened after June 10. With their 3-6 month waning immunity, we are now off the "honeymoon" period and are seeing 76% of cases in vaccinated. Rest of your comment tells me you can't have a civil discussion without dehumanizing people.
- jollybean 5y ago
  "when newer data is available and shows 76% of cases in Ontario are now in vaccinated?" This is false. Where is your reference for this? Don't have one? I will reference the data you're commenting about for you, because it disproves your own case: Ontario, most recent data [1] - which I have already referenced in other comments. I chose the BC data because it was the first that came up - and it is 100% representative of what has been going on globally. Since the dawn of vaccines, all around the world, the data shows that rates of infections are about 5x higher among the vaccinated. It's definitive, all of the data shows that, from every country. The only distinction to that - is literally in the last 2 days, with Omicron, we're seeing more cases among the vaccinated, but it's not 75%. Stop spreading anti-vaxx information during a pandemic. [1] when newer data is available and shows 76% of cases in Ontario are now in vaccinated?
  - busymom0 5y ago
    > Stop spreading anti-vaxx information during a pandemic. Why do you keep resolving to ad-hominem attacks? People usually do that when the facts aren't on their side. I am also not an anti-vaxxer. I am fully vaccinated for other diseases and most likely more vaccines than the average Canadian because of my legal status. I also suggest elders, obese and those with comorbidities will benefit from the COVID shots. My problem is with "vaccine mandates", especially for young, fit and healthy people. Stop throwing around words when you don't know anything about me. The very first link I had in my comment which you replied to agrees with what I said about 76% of cases in Ontario being fully vaccinated. For example, today: 673 unvaccinated, 132 partially vaccinated and 2500 fully vaccinated cases. Also, many of these partially vaccinated should be considered fully vaccinated as Pfizer is supposed to be fully vaccinated after 7 days, not 14 days whereas Ontario uses 14 days for that status and vast majority of our shots were Pfizer. Even prior to omicron, the fully vaccinated cases were drastically rising, much faster than the rate of vaccinations. For example, when 72% of Ontario was fully vaccinated on October 8, 36.6% of cases were fully vaccinated. However, a month later when the vaccinations went up by only 3% (75%) on November 10, the cases went up by 12% with 48.4% of cases being fully vaccinated. This shows the drastic decline in efficacy after 3-6 months (remember - Ontario had under 10% vaccinations till June 10). Even if Omicron hadn't shown up, the fully vaccinated cases would have risen in a similar fashion by January. Omicron simply sped up that process. The legal and scientific definition of a vaccine is "any substance designed to be administered to a human being for the prevention of 1 or more diseases". https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4132#a_2 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4132#a_2 "Prevention" is the key word here. These shots do not prevent infection, nor do they prevent transmission. They should never have been called "vaccines". So far, you have ad hominem attacked me, used outdated data from August, ignored the link which I pointed to for Ontario. If the shots were so effective, then why are they pushing for 3rd doses for everyone and why is Pfizer talking about 4th dose already? When do you accept that these shots are not holding up to what they were sold as? Pfizer CEO says fourth Covid vaccine doses may be needed sooner than expected due to omicron: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-may-need-fourth-covid-vaccine-doses-sooner-than-expected.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-m... Israel giving 4th shot: https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/21/middleeast/israel-fourth-covid-vaccine-booster-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/21/middleeast/israel-fourth-covi... Never before have we given 3rd and 4th shots for any vaccine so fast. Tetanus shots boosters are given after 10 years if needed. And here we have 4 shots in less than a year. This conversation is going nowhere, so I won't be responding further.

busymom0 5y ago

> Aug. 13-26 Why are you using data from August when newer data is available and shows 76% of cases in Ontario are now in vaccinated? I even mentioned that Canada had under 10% vaccination till June 10, so vast majority of the vaccinations happened after June 10. With their 3-6 month waning immunity, we are now off the "honeymoon" period and are seeing 76% of cases in vaccinated. Rest of your comment tells me you can't have a civil discussion without dehumanizing people.

jollybean 5y ago
"when newer data is available and shows 76% of cases in Ontario are now in vaccinated?" This is false. Where is your reference for this? Don't have one? I will reference the data you're commenting about for you, because it disproves your own case: Ontario, most recent data [1] - which I have already referenced in other comments. I chose the BC data because it was the first that came up - and it is 100% representative of what has been going on globally. Since the dawn of vaccines, all around the world, the data shows that rates of infections are about 5x higher among the vaccinated. It's definitive, all of the data shows that, from every country. The only distinction to that - is literally in the last 2 days, with Omicron, we're seeing more cases among the vaccinated, but it's not 75%. Stop spreading anti-vaxx information during a pandemic. [1] when newer data is available and shows 76% of cases in Ontario are now in vaccinated?
- busymom0 5y ago
  > Stop spreading anti-vaxx information during a pandemic. Why do you keep resolving to ad-hominem attacks? People usually do that when the facts aren't on their side. I am also not an anti-vaxxer. I am fully vaccinated for other diseases and most likely more vaccines than the average Canadian because of my legal status. I also suggest elders, obese and those with comorbidities will benefit from the COVID shots. My problem is with "vaccine mandates", especially for young, fit and healthy people. Stop throwing around words when you don't know anything about me. The very first link I had in my comment which you replied to agrees with what I said about 76% of cases in Ontario being fully vaccinated. For example, today: 673 unvaccinated, 132 partially vaccinated and 2500 fully vaccinated cases. Also, many of these partially vaccinated should be considered fully vaccinated as Pfizer is supposed to be fully vaccinated after 7 days, not 14 days whereas Ontario uses 14 days for that status and vast majority of our shots were Pfizer. Even prior to omicron, the fully vaccinated cases were drastically rising, much faster than the rate of vaccinations. For example, when 72% of Ontario was fully vaccinated on October 8, 36.6% of cases were fully vaccinated. However, a month later when the vaccinations went up by only 3% (75%) on November 10, the cases went up by 12% with 48.4% of cases being fully vaccinated. This shows the drastic decline in efficacy after 3-6 months (remember - Ontario had under 10% vaccinations till June 10). Even if Omicron hadn't shown up, the fully vaccinated cases would have risen in a similar fashion by January. Omicron simply sped up that process. The legal and scientific definition of a vaccine is "any substance designed to be administered to a human being for the prevention of 1 or more diseases". https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4132#a_2 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4132#a_2 "Prevention" is the key word here. These shots do not prevent infection, nor do they prevent transmission. They should never have been called "vaccines". So far, you have ad hominem attacked me, used outdated data from August, ignored the link which I pointed to for Ontario. If the shots were so effective, then why are they pushing for 3rd doses for everyone and why is Pfizer talking about 4th dose already? When do you accept that these shots are not holding up to what they were sold as? Pfizer CEO says fourth Covid vaccine doses may be needed sooner than expected due to omicron: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-may-need-fourth-covid-vaccine-doses-sooner-than-expected.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-m... Israel giving 4th shot: https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/21/middleeast/israel-fourth-covid-vaccine-booster-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/21/middleeast/israel-fourth-covi... Never before have we given 3rd and 4th shots for any vaccine so fast. Tetanus shots boosters are given after 10 years if needed. And here we have 4 shots in less than a year. This conversation is going nowhere, so I won't be responding further.