4 ms·

Does a prior infected person count toward herd immunity? I have Dr. letter of my recovery. I heard those who had it and recovered have sterilizing immunity. Is

Does a prior infected person count toward herd immunity? I have Dr. letter of my recovery. I heard those who had it and recovered have sterilizing immunity. Is that better or worse than the vaccine non-sterilizing immunity for getting us to herd immunity?

rabuse 5y ago
Anecdotal, but I got my first bought of covid in Feb. 2020, and it was very flu-like for me. I've had 2 more infections after that (one, didn't even know, and the next was like a mild cold). In South Florida, we barely had a lockdown.
- beberlei 5y ago
  How do you even know it was COVID? It could have been any number of flu/cold? In feb 20 there was no way to get tested for it
  - rabuse 5y ago
    The complete loss of smell and taste, was never a flu symptom to me before.
walterbell 5y ago
In the Denmark numbers above, only 4.3% of Omicron infections were Covid-recovered, compared to 77% being double-vax, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29633285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29633285
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  For that to be meaningful you need to compare the per capita rate of vaccinated and prior covid infected. That’ll show you very roughly how much protection each provides in a way that’s comparable.
- usrusr 5y ago
  With hardly more than 10% recovered, total, vs almost everybody vaccinated that's not much of a difference. Very well within the range of methodical difference like in which group those recovered and vaccinated are counted and so on.
garmaine 5y ago
Why don’t you get the jab? It would be strictly better to have both.
usrusr 5y ago
Herd immunity counts nothing against delta or omicron. The endemic state, a permanent balance between immunity vaning and reinfection, that's not herd immunity. Natural immunity is just as temporary as vaccine immunity, give or take a few months.
- joshuahughes 5y ago
  "Natural immunity is just as temporary as vaccine immunity, give or take a few months." Citations needed for that claim. Based on the articles below, natural immunity seems to be vastly longer lasting... Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting... Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
  - ripe 5y ago
    The concluding para from your Nature article says the opposite of what you're claiming, and supports the person you're replying to: "the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or by infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is, we will need a booster.”"
    - peteradio 5y ago
      Its a confusing conversation because theres different levels of immunity. I think the bone marrow cells are indicative of long-term protection from severe illness. They have long ramp up time from the point of latest exposure. Blood boosted antibodies will be there to thwart an infection and continue to be there to prevent reinfection but the body turns off the pump because it becomes a waste of resource without an active enemy. So the lifecycle of a (non-boosted) person going through endemic sars-cov2 will be slow activation followed by an afterburner which will tend to get you through a wave. Or you can try to time a booster to get you through a wave without getting triggered by the actual virus. So in a sense, there is evidence long term "slow" immunity which is less effective at preventing transmissions and so allows for waves which indicates a certain lack of immunity by another defintion. I think that leads to conflict because of fuzzy definition on either side of the conversation. Anyway that's my mental model of this whole thing. Any glaring holes?

rabuse 5y ago

Anecdotal, but I got my first bought of covid in Feb. 2020, and it was very flu-like for me. I've had 2 more infections after that (one, didn't even know, and the next was like a mild cold). In South Florida, we barely had a lockdown.

beberlei 5y ago
How do you even know it was COVID? It could have been any number of flu/cold? In feb 20 there was no way to get tested for it
- rabuse 5y ago
  The complete loss of smell and taste, was never a flu symptom to me before.

walterbell 5y ago

In the Denmark numbers above, only 4.3% of Omicron infections were Covid-recovered, compared to 77% being double-vax, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29633285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29633285

meheleventyone 5y ago
For that to be meaningful you need to compare the per capita rate of vaccinated and prior covid infected. That’ll show you very roughly how much protection each provides in a way that’s comparable.
usrusr 5y ago
With hardly more than 10% recovered, total, vs almost everybody vaccinated that's not much of a difference. Very well within the range of methodical difference like in which group those recovered and vaccinated are counted and so on.

garmaine 5y ago

Why don’t you get the jab? It would be strictly better to have both.

usrusr 5y ago

Herd immunity counts nothing against delta or omicron. The endemic state, a permanent balance between immunity vaning and reinfection, that's not herd immunity. Natural immunity is just as temporary as vaccine immunity, give or take a few months.

joshuahughes 5y ago
"Natural immunity is just as temporary as vaccine immunity, give or take a few months." Citations needed for that claim. Based on the articles below, natural immunity seems to be vastly longer lasting... Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting... Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
- ripe 5y ago
  The concluding para from your Nature article says the opposite of what you're claiming, and supports the person you're replying to: "the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or by infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is, we will need a booster.”"
  - peteradio 5y ago
    Its a confusing conversation because theres different levels of immunity. I think the bone marrow cells are indicative of long-term protection from severe illness. They have long ramp up time from the point of latest exposure. Blood boosted antibodies will be there to thwart an infection and continue to be there to prevent reinfection but the body turns off the pump because it becomes a waste of resource without an active enemy. So the lifecycle of a (non-boosted) person going through endemic sars-cov2 will be slow activation followed by an afterburner which will tend to get you through a wave. Or you can try to time a booster to get you through a wave without getting triggered by the actual virus. So in a sense, there is evidence long term "slow" immunity which is less effective at preventing transmissions and so allows for waves which indicates a certain lack of immunity by another defintion. I think that leads to conflict because of fuzzy definition on either side of the conversation. Anyway that's my mental model of this whole thing. Any glaring holes?