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> Your use case seems to be unusual, an old FAQ entry suggests that i3wm users prefer text-based file managers: This is an old NAS that I don't really use much

by _2paq 5y ago

> Your use case seems to be unusual, an old FAQ entry suggests that i3wm users prefer text-based file managers: This is an old NAS that I don't really use much. It's true though, I've mostly stopped using GUI apps on my primary workstation except Firefox because of how messy the situation is with GUIs on Linux. GTK wants to enforce its decisions on me and KDE Qt apps don't work well on my Wayland window manager. > I've also had KDE apps break quite badly with certain themes so I don't really know what you mean they work fine. I meant to say that, unlike GNOME apps, they allow me to use my own themes and don't enforce their decisions and choices on me when I use their apps. I'm not using Android or iOS so I don't expect to be treated like an idiot. > You can try to get them to work in something else like i3wm but it's always been on users of those other window managers to figure out how to integrate it. It's not the uphill battle you're trying to project to make KDE apps work on non-KDE environment. Sure, some themes aren't built well but some are and all I have to do is install Kvantum+qt5ct to make the app look how I want it to. This isn't possible with GNOME and elementary apps because they chose to become their own isolated silos. > It's worth noting that blog is one developer's opinion. Is it? The opinions on that article are almost always shared by all the core GNOME developers I've seen commenting on issue trackers. Even the stopthemingmyapp guys resonate those opinions. Doesn't sound like "one developer's opinion" to me. > No, I think it would be worse if there would be no extensions. Judging by the general disdain towards extensions by GNOME developers and many users, I doubt that's the case.

shatteredgate 5y ago
BTW for an example, here is what the KDE system settings looks like for me when I try to run it using qt5ct in GNOME: https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png I think we can agree that this is unusable, it also appears that it is attempting to load 3 or 4 themes at the same time which are all conflicting with each other. To me, trying to run KDE apps with a GNOME style or GNOME apps with a KDE style has always been a risky endeavor. Perhaps you got lucky running some apps that played nicely with themes but some apps just don't work at all outside their intended environment because they were not designed to use themes.
- _2paq 5y ago
  > BTW for an example, here is what the KDE system settings looks like for me when I try to run it using qt5ct in GNOME: https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png I don't get why you'd want to run KDE system settings outside KDE. The system settings app also has a lot of optional dependencies. I don't know which distro you're using but if any of those optional dependencies isn't installed, the system settings app misbehaves. Typically, you'd run apps like Spectacle and Gwenview and Dolphin, standalone apps that serve a purpose, and from my experience, those have always worked on i3wm without issues.
  - shatteredgate 5y ago
    Well again that's great for you that all the apps you use worked, but a lot of the KDE apps I use are broken with some themes :) I'm sure they would work fine in i3wm if you used Breeze but I have had very mixed results on any window manager with qt5ct, some apps play nice with it and some don't. It's not just the system settings that are broken for me, I just picked that as an example. Sometimes it's useful outside of KDE because it's the best way to configure global settings for some KDE apps, not just the shell and window manager. I've looked into it and it has nothing to do with optional dependencies, there are actually just issues with some themes and some apps. But generally I think it's a bad idea to try to run any KDE apps outside KDE, or any GNOME apps outside GNOME, etc, those apps work much better when used with their respective desktops.
shatteredgate 5y ago
>I meant to say that, unlike GNOME apps, they allow me to use my own themes and don't enforce their decisions and choices on me when I use their apps. Well you can also use any theme you want on GNOME apps, libadwaita didn't break that, or rather it's just as bad as it is with KDE themes. Some themes will work but other themes will break everything. >It's not the uphill battle you're trying to project to make KDE apps work on non-KDE environment. Sure, some themes aren't built well but some are and all I have to do is install Kvantum+qt5ct to make the app look how I want it to. I can't agree here, I have had qt5ct break really badly with some apps and themes. It just doesn't work if the app wasn't designed to use it. I don't even bother with KDE themes anymore and I just use Breeze, if you ask me third-party theming is a total waste of time on any platform. For me it's always broken things or caused very strange glitches. >I meant to say that, unlike GNOME apps, they allow me to use my own themes and don't enforce their decisions and choices on me when I use their apps. This isn't possible with GNOME and elementary apps because they chose to become their own isolated silos. Again I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here, GNOME and Elementary apps can still be themed through unofficial third party methods. Developers of apps for those platforms do tend to focus on supporting the official theme for those platforms but that's the same as KDE where developers focus on supporting Breeze. >I'm not using Android or iOS so I don't expect to be treated like an idiot. Funny you mention this because I used to have jailbroken Android and iOS phones that were hacked to install third-party themes. The themes were just as broken as with GNOME and KDE. They might work OK with some of the built-in apps but would break quite badly with any third-party apps or when an OS update happened. That was another reason I just stopped trying to use third-party themes altogether. >Is it? The opinions on that article are almost always shared by all the core GNOME developers I've seen commenting on issue trackers. Even the stopthemingmyapp guys resonate those opinions. I'm not sure what you mean by core GNOME developers. IIRC Stopthemingmy.app was signed by some independent developers that decided they don't want to support third party themes that break their apps. It's not even related to the shell or extensions. You're conflating several things here. That petition didn't change anything technically about themes, it was a public acknowledgement that themes can break apps badly and that they won't be supporting them, which they never did before anyway. >Judging by the general disdain towards extensions by GNOME developers and many users, I doubt that's the case. You may have a biased view, I've heard complaints but the reason they happen is because users really like extensions and want them to stay. I've also heard lots of good things from users and extension developers, it works well when extension developers can test and update their extensions in a timely manner. Besides you can already have that if you want; just don't install any extensions.

by _2paq 5y ago

shatteredgate 5y ago

BTW for an example, here is what the KDE system settings looks like for me when I try to run it using qt5ct in GNOME: https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png I think we can agree that this is unusable, it also appears that it is attempting to load 3 or 4 themes at the same time which are all conflicting with each other. To me, trying to run KDE apps with a GNOME style or GNOME apps with a KDE style has always been a risky endeavor. Perhaps you got lucky running some apps that played nicely with themes but some apps just don't work at all outside their intended environment because they were not designed to use themes.

_2paq 5y ago
> BTW for an example, here is what the KDE system settings looks like for me when I try to run it using qt5ct in GNOME: https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png https://i.imgur.com/pxEKXye.png I don't get why you'd want to run KDE system settings outside KDE. The system settings app also has a lot of optional dependencies. I don't know which distro you're using but if any of those optional dependencies isn't installed, the system settings app misbehaves. Typically, you'd run apps like Spectacle and Gwenview and Dolphin, standalone apps that serve a purpose, and from my experience, those have always worked on i3wm without issues.
- shatteredgate 5y ago
  Well again that's great for you that all the apps you use worked, but a lot of the KDE apps I use are broken with some themes :) I'm sure they would work fine in i3wm if you used Breeze but I have had very mixed results on any window manager with qt5ct, some apps play nice with it and some don't. It's not just the system settings that are broken for me, I just picked that as an example. Sometimes it's useful outside of KDE because it's the best way to configure global settings for some KDE apps, not just the shell and window manager. I've looked into it and it has nothing to do with optional dependencies, there are actually just issues with some themes and some apps. But generally I think it's a bad idea to try to run any KDE apps outside KDE, or any GNOME apps outside GNOME, etc, those apps work much better when used with their respective desktops.

shatteredgate 5y ago

>I meant to say that, unlike GNOME apps, they allow me to use my own themes and don't enforce their decisions and choices on me when I use their apps. Well you can also use any theme you want on GNOME apps, libadwaita didn't break that, or rather it's just as bad as it is with KDE themes. Some themes will work but other themes will break everything. >It's not the uphill battle you're trying to project to make KDE apps work on non-KDE environment. Sure, some themes aren't built well but some are and all I have to do is install Kvantum+qt5ct to make the app look how I want it to. I can't agree here, I have had qt5ct break really badly with some apps and themes. It just doesn't work if the app wasn't designed to use it. I don't even bother with KDE themes anymore and I just use Breeze, if you ask me third-party theming is a total waste of time on any platform. For me it's always broken things or caused very strange glitches. >I meant to say that, unlike GNOME apps, they allow me to use my own themes and don't enforce their decisions and choices on me when I use their apps. This isn't possible with GNOME and elementary apps because they chose to become their own isolated silos. Again I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here, GNOME and Elementary apps can still be themed through unofficial third party methods. Developers of apps for those platforms do tend to focus on supporting the official theme for those platforms but that's the same as KDE where developers focus on supporting Breeze. >I'm not using Android or iOS so I don't expect to be treated like an idiot. Funny you mention this because I used to have jailbroken Android and iOS phones that were hacked to install third-party themes. The themes were just as broken as with GNOME and KDE. They might work OK with some of the built-in apps but would break quite badly with any third-party apps or when an OS update happened. That was another reason I just stopped trying to use third-party themes altogether. >Is it? The opinions on that article are almost always shared by all the core GNOME developers I've seen commenting on issue trackers. Even the stopthemingmyapp guys resonate those opinions. I'm not sure what you mean by core GNOME developers. IIRC Stopthemingmy.app was signed by some independent developers that decided they don't want to support third party themes that break their apps. It's not even related to the shell or extensions. You're conflating several things here. That petition didn't change anything technically about themes, it was a public acknowledgement that themes can break apps badly and that they won't be supporting them, which they never did before anyway. >Judging by the general disdain towards extensions by GNOME developers and many users, I doubt that's the case. You may have a biased view, I've heard complaints but the reason they happen is because users really like extensions and want them to stay. I've also heard lots of good things from users and extension developers, it works well when extension developers can test and update their extensions in a timely manner. Besides you can already have that if you want; just don't install any extensions.