5 ms·

I'm more or less in the ballpark of 10% of weight lost and maintained in a timeline of 5+ years (although weight is always in flux). I have no genetic gifts - I

I'm more or less in the ballpark of 10% of weight lost and maintained in a timeline of 5+ years (although weight is always in flux). I have no genetic gifts - I must keep an eye on the nutrition and training; otherwise, my weight slowly goes up. If I saw people permanently ban junk/fat/sugary food from their homes, do at least 3 hours/week of complete training (weights and cardio), and not being able to stay fit, I would believe that weight loss/being fit is a serious physiological and psychological challenge. What I observe though, starting from mid-30s, is that the vast majority of people keeps junk food at home (which is, no wonder, "extremely difficult psychologically" not to eat) and/or doesn't do traning (let alone complete training). And invariably blames it on genetics and aging. (I don't doubt that there is a minority of the people that has serious metabolic disorders, but that's not the general case)

cm2012 5y ago
You should carefully read what I wrote in the context of the parent comment, and see why your comment is not adding anything to the conversation. In other words, if you're a doctor, go ahead and tell all your patients the above. You will see negligible impact on their weight, so your advice was useless (worse than useless, since you come across as an asshole). As an aside, conscientiousness/willpower is highly heritable (as much as height and IQ), so if you're especially good at sticking to a diet, that's also genetics.
- oaktrout 5y ago
  If it works for 5% of people it is by definition not useless. Bariatric surgery is not without its risks, and I would rather weed out the 5% who respond to the low risk approach before exposing them to the risks and long term side effects of bariatric surgery.
  - cm2012 5y ago
    5% is really generous in the data I've seen and posted above, and I've never seen any positive data on just advice. Maybe the data on what happens if you call your patients weak willed losers would surprise us all, but I doubt it.
    - oaktrout 5y ago
      The data you posted shows that the average person was able to maintain about 7lbs of weight loss without surgery, so it's definitely more than 5%*. Also, who is saying we are calling patients weak willed losers? Should we not tell patients to stop smoking, or to quit heroin, because they might think that we think of them as "weak willed losers"? *edit for ambiguous wording: By this I mean it seems to work for at least 50% of people, with the average being 3% weight loss.
      - cm2012 5y ago
        The data shows 3% average for the best case scenario fitness regime they found as far as I can read. For the weak willed comment, that was a reference to Pizza234's comment I was responding to earlier, not yours.
        oaktrout 5y ago
        The 3% from the meta analysis above was not for a single "best case scenario fitness regime". It was a number calculated by pooling data from ~28 studies with varied methodologies. A significant portion of those studies employed dietary changes alone (no fitness regime).
  - jnwatson 5y ago
    Bariatric surgery patients almost universally have tried several other treatments before they try surgery.
- ellyagg 5y ago
  Lately the medical establishment sounds like it has given up on crafting novel messaging/systems for helping people lose weight naturally, which is preposterously dumb when it is far more safe and effective than drugs when it works.

cm2012 5y ago

You should carefully read what I wrote in the context of the parent comment, and see why your comment is not adding anything to the conversation. In other words, if you're a doctor, go ahead and tell all your patients the above. You will see negligible impact on their weight, so your advice was useless (worse than useless, since you come across as an asshole). As an aside, conscientiousness/willpower is highly heritable (as much as height and IQ), so if you're especially good at sticking to a diet, that's also genetics.

oaktrout 5y ago
If it works for 5% of people it is by definition not useless. Bariatric surgery is not without its risks, and I would rather weed out the 5% who respond to the low risk approach before exposing them to the risks and long term side effects of bariatric surgery.
- cm2012 5y ago
  5% is really generous in the data I've seen and posted above, and I've never seen any positive data on just advice. Maybe the data on what happens if you call your patients weak willed losers would surprise us all, but I doubt it.
  - oaktrout 5y ago
    The data you posted shows that the average person was able to maintain about 7lbs of weight loss without surgery, so it's definitely more than 5%*. Also, who is saying we are calling patients weak willed losers? Should we not tell patients to stop smoking, or to quit heroin, because they might think that we think of them as "weak willed losers"? *edit for ambiguous wording: By this I mean it seems to work for at least 50% of people, with the average being 3% weight loss.
    - cm2012 5y ago
      The data shows 3% average for the best case scenario fitness regime they found as far as I can read. For the weak willed comment, that was a reference to Pizza234's comment I was responding to earlier, not yours.
      - oaktrout 5y ago
        The 3% from the meta analysis above was not for a single "best case scenario fitness regime". It was a number calculated by pooling data from ~28 studies with varied methodologies. A significant portion of those studies employed dietary changes alone (no fitness regime).
- jnwatson 5y ago
  Bariatric surgery patients almost universally have tried several other treatments before they try surgery.
ellyagg 5y ago
Lately the medical establishment sounds like it has given up on crafting novel messaging/systems for helping people lose weight naturally, which is preposterously dumb when it is far more safe and effective than drugs when it works.