5 ms·

Though not entirely aligned with the article, it does remind me of the toxic culture we have with drugs (at least in the United States) that I think makes it ha

Though not entirely aligned with the article, it does remind me of the toxic culture we have with drugs (at least in the United States) that I think makes it hard to have a non-toxic relationship with drugs. I like drugs. But I set a ton of rules for myself. I never buy more than a small amount of a drug at a time, I take scheduled breaks from any drug, I know the signs of addiction for drugs that I take and I take unscheduled breaks if I notice any of those. I also don't hide it from friends or family, so they can help catch signs that I may miss (though it hasn't been an issue yet). My point is that there is so much shame around doing drugs; that one bump of coke can make you a fiend or that everything is laced with fentanyl, that we lose sight of the true way in which drugs take hold of a person. Addiction happens "slowly, then all at once" and recognizing that and knowing the early warning signs helps. I am not suggesting everyone do all the drugs they want all the time; additive personalities are a thing, unknown quality of street drugs is a thing, and acting dangerous to yourself or others while high is a thing. But I think the shame associated with drugs, forcing people to use drugs in the shadows, exposes us all to the biggest risk, which is addiction.

tsol 5y ago
Hmm maybe I'm younger than you, but I thought this was going in a different direction, to me there was often too much of an open acceptance. Growing up for me, drugs have felt like the opposite. It's what the cool kids did, and doing it was cool. Not doing it well, mind you, with lots of rules and carefulness. Just doing it to party and fit in. I know that isn't new, but where I was growing up even the smart kids who were clean most of the year would go to music festivals and experiment with ecstacy and other powerful drugs. It's in music, on tv, and multiple presidents have done them. The problem I've felt, has been that very few seem to know how to do drugs the right way Most people seem to use them like a button that you hit when you wanna party and let loose. To me, they're very different-- they're buttons with very specific effects. A very very small dose of an opiate can make you more sociable and even less stressed. It's not optimal, but before I learned healthier coping mechanisms I used this a lot. But damn it though I stay away, I have to admit in extreme moderation they still can enhance performance unbelievably well. Only problem is they're insanely addictive, so I stay away. My point is that I think there are smarter ways to use drugs, more like a doctor than like a rapper. I know some people will always want to use drugs like they're in a music video, you can't do much about that. But I think much of the population would actually like to use drugs in a more informed and pragmatic way. Is it not right to use drugs to have fun? No, at least I don't think there is a right way to use drugs. But I do think treating them like "fun" buttons is a terrible idea. I'm not against ecstacy, but it's neurotoxic. I'm not against weed but it can trigger mental disorders in some who are susceptible. I'm not against cocaine but honestly a lot of it does have fentanyl added in nowadays and unless you have the patience to test it in advance first you should stay away. Most people don't consider any of this, but they should. Drugs change your brain permanently(that's why the second time is never like the first), they're not to be taken lightly. Unfortunately, there's very little discussion on harm reduction and smart drug use. It's either the devil, or it's not a big deal. The truth, as always, is somewhere in between
netizen-936824 5y ago
I completely agree, the US does have a toxic relationship with drugs. Generally fueled by the ideology that sobriety is somehow superior to any form of intoxication. This misguided belief has done immense damage to communities through the application of criminalization of substances.
- katzgrau 5y ago
  > Generally fueled by the ideology that sobriety is somehow superior to any form of intoxication. Huh? Perhaps fueled by the idea that intoxication leads to more harmful events for society, its members, and the individual. Perhaps we put on airs about being responsible and avoiding intoxication - but when it really comes down to it, society prefers the intoxicated over straight edge types.
ezy 5y ago
jeffreyrogers 5y ago
Since you're on HN you're probably more intelligent and somewhat more disciplined than the general population. I doubt that what works for you would scale to the population at large. > Addiction happens "slowly, then all at once" and recognizing that and knowing the early warning signs helps. There are different types of addicts and it is hard to know in advance if you are one of the more at risk types or what will trigger you to become one. I don't particularly care if people do drugs, but it seems like common sense that exposing more people to drugs will increase the number of addicts.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  You are correct that more exposure would likely lead to more addiction, but consider alcohol. As a society we have developed cultural norms for avoiding addiction such as drinking only in the evenings, weekends, or special occasions. This is only one of many cultural mechanisms we have for regulating drug use, we just need the exposure to develop the mechanisms.
  - mise_en_place 5y ago
    Yet many will happily drive extremely drunk or high (or both, as I’m currently seeing where I live as Californians invade). Sometimes societal regulation mechanisms like social pressure are not strong enough. Perhaps we as a society should understand what drives a man to drink until he can barely move, examining shared social traumas that many of us experience.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      We should work to understand what drives use, and we are. Plenty of researchers are working on understanding the physiological underpinnings of the desire to use any given substance. I personally suspect that over 50% of drug users are attempting to self medicate in some way. Whether or not they are consciously aware that self medication is what they are doing, that's another question entirely.
      - 5y ago
KronisLV 5y ago
> But I think the shame associated with drugs, forcing people to use drugs in the shadows, exposes us all to the biggest risk, which is addiction. You know, i'm not entirely sure about that. On one hand, that is a good argument and speaking about all of the "vices" that humans enjoy in a more frank manner and how to engage in them in a more safe manner could be a good thing. Also, the legalization of certain substances could lead to more regulation, quality control and tax income. I could draw parallels with how men in society are oftentimes expected not to show emotions, or how mental health isn't really addressed in social discourse all that much, leaving many feeling miserable. Or perhaps how sex workers often operate without proper testing in place or worker protections, versus the countries where that sort of thing is legalized. On the other hand, i'm not sure that normalizing potentially harmful behaviors is acceptable. For example, personally, i don't even drink alcohol - i've tried it a few times, but didn't feel like it's for me. Being detached from drinking just makes me aware of how much of a deeply ingrained drinking culture there is in our society - people drink for celebrations, for relaxation, talk about the supposed health benefits of wine, there are commercials on TV and online for alcohol and the end result is that many people end up drinking. This leads to traffic accidents (DUI). This leads to preventable disease and lower life spans. This leads to more violence due to drinking. This also leads to the kind of addiction that makes members of society lose their income and housing. Perhaps this plays into your point about addictive personalities or just poor decision making. I feel like it's the same story with cigarettes. And that it would be the same story for other types of substances. Either way, it's a pretty slippery slope and it's hard to reason about these things.

tsol 5y ago

Hmm maybe I'm younger than you, but I thought this was going in a different direction, to me there was often too much of an open acceptance. Growing up for me, drugs have felt like the opposite. It's what the cool kids did, and doing it was cool. Not doing it well, mind you, with lots of rules and carefulness. Just doing it to party and fit in. I know that isn't new, but where I was growing up even the smart kids who were clean most of the year would go to music festivals and experiment with ecstacy and other powerful drugs. It's in music, on tv, and multiple presidents have done them. The problem I've felt, has been that very few seem to know how to do drugs the right way Most people seem to use them like a button that you hit when you wanna party and let loose. To me, they're very different-- they're buttons with very specific effects. A very very small dose of an opiate can make you more sociable and even less stressed. It's not optimal, but before I learned healthier coping mechanisms I used this a lot. But damn it though I stay away, I have to admit in extreme moderation they still can enhance performance unbelievably well. Only problem is they're insanely addictive, so I stay away. My point is that I think there are smarter ways to use drugs, more like a doctor than like a rapper. I know some people will always want to use drugs like they're in a music video, you can't do much about that. But I think much of the population would actually like to use drugs in a more informed and pragmatic way. Is it not right to use drugs to have fun? No, at least I don't think there is a right way to use drugs. But I do think treating them like "fun" buttons is a terrible idea. I'm not against ecstacy, but it's neurotoxic. I'm not against weed but it can trigger mental disorders in some who are susceptible. I'm not against cocaine but honestly a lot of it does have fentanyl added in nowadays and unless you have the patience to test it in advance first you should stay away. Most people don't consider any of this, but they should. Drugs change your brain permanently(that's why the second time is never like the first), they're not to be taken lightly. Unfortunately, there's very little discussion on harm reduction and smart drug use. It's either the devil, or it's not a big deal. The truth, as always, is somewhere in between

netizen-936824 5y ago

I completely agree, the US does have a toxic relationship with drugs. Generally fueled by the ideology that sobriety is somehow superior to any form of intoxication. This misguided belief has done immense damage to communities through the application of criminalization of substances.

katzgrau 5y ago
> Generally fueled by the ideology that sobriety is somehow superior to any form of intoxication. Huh? Perhaps fueled by the idea that intoxication leads to more harmful events for society, its members, and the individual. Perhaps we put on airs about being responsible and avoiding intoxication - but when it really comes down to it, society prefers the intoxicated over straight edge types.

ezy 5y ago

jeffreyrogers 5y ago

Since you're on HN you're probably more intelligent and somewhat more disciplined than the general population. I doubt that what works for you would scale to the population at large. > Addiction happens "slowly, then all at once" and recognizing that and knowing the early warning signs helps. There are different types of addicts and it is hard to know in advance if you are one of the more at risk types or what will trigger you to become one. I don't particularly care if people do drugs, but it seems like common sense that exposing more people to drugs will increase the number of addicts.

netizen-936824 5y ago
You are correct that more exposure would likely lead to more addiction, but consider alcohol. As a society we have developed cultural norms for avoiding addiction such as drinking only in the evenings, weekends, or special occasions. This is only one of many cultural mechanisms we have for regulating drug use, we just need the exposure to develop the mechanisms.
- mise_en_place 5y ago
  Yet many will happily drive extremely drunk or high (or both, as I’m currently seeing where I live as Californians invade). Sometimes societal regulation mechanisms like social pressure are not strong enough. Perhaps we as a society should understand what drives a man to drink until he can barely move, examining shared social traumas that many of us experience.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    We should work to understand what drives use, and we are. Plenty of researchers are working on understanding the physiological underpinnings of the desire to use any given substance. I personally suspect that over 50% of drug users are attempting to self medicate in some way. Whether or not they are consciously aware that self medication is what they are doing, that's another question entirely.
    - 5y ago

KronisLV 5y ago

> But I think the shame associated with drugs, forcing people to use drugs in the shadows, exposes us all to the biggest risk, which is addiction. You know, i'm not entirely sure about that. On one hand, that is a good argument and speaking about all of the "vices" that humans enjoy in a more frank manner and how to engage in them in a more safe manner could be a good thing. Also, the legalization of certain substances could lead to more regulation, quality control and tax income. I could draw parallels with how men in society are oftentimes expected not to show emotions, or how mental health isn't really addressed in social discourse all that much, leaving many feeling miserable. Or perhaps how sex workers often operate without proper testing in place or worker protections, versus the countries where that sort of thing is legalized. On the other hand, i'm not sure that normalizing potentially harmful behaviors is acceptable. For example, personally, i don't even drink alcohol - i've tried it a few times, but didn't feel like it's for me. Being detached from drinking just makes me aware of how much of a deeply ingrained drinking culture there is in our society - people drink for celebrations, for relaxation, talk about the supposed health benefits of wine, there are commercials on TV and online for alcohol and the end result is that many people end up drinking. This leads to traffic accidents (DUI). This leads to preventable disease and lower life spans. This leads to more violence due to drinking. This also leads to the kind of addiction that makes members of society lose their income and housing. Perhaps this plays into your point about addictive personalities or just poor decision making. I feel like it's the same story with cigarettes. And that it would be the same story for other types of substances. Either way, it's a pretty slippery slope and it's hard to reason about these things.