> good managers And that's the key - good managers. Now, I think that it's pretty hard for most people to identify good vs bad managers, and that's why a lot

> good managers And that's the key - good managers. Now, I think that it's pretty hard for most people to identify good vs bad managers, and that's why a lot of people who aren't sensitive to the difference get into the mindset of "management is a bunch of toxic leeches who don't add any value to the company". Interestingly enough, it's also pretty hard for most people to identify good an bad developers - but most people aren't developers. It's far easier for those that are. This raises an interesting question - is it harder for managers to identify bad managers than it is for developers to identify bad developers? What about the ease of developers identifying bad managers vs managers identifying bad developers? I wouldn't be surprised if it's harder to recognize good/bad managers - management is all about abstracting away the stuff under you for the next level up, after all. But, I also wouldn't be surprised if the problem comes down to something else other than identification - maybe bad managers are more prone to keep bad managers around than bad programmers are to keep other bad programmers around... It's at times like this that I wish that I had more experience in the corporate world...