5 ms·

I always figured the gaming industry gets away with its treatment of workers because there's always a new crop of naïve people whose dream is to make games, so

I always figured the gaming industry gets away with its treatment of workers because there's always a new crop of naïve people whose dream is to make games, so they can burn them out, and then just toss them away, and then suck in the new crop. Other sectors can't get away with it as easily because no one says, "It's been dream since childhood to make auto insurance more profitable."

ethbr0 5y ago
This is what seems toxic about the entire "enterprise" (i.e. not indie) video game industry. It's figuratively (and sometimes literally) the equivalent of someone cruising college bars looking for folks "willing to be paid for a few private pictures." Take someone with hopes, dreams, aspiration, pay them the minimum you can get away with (that due to their stage of life seems like a lot), dress up the entire experience with pomp and fun and free snacks, tell them how they're going to change the world, extract every ounce of profit you can from them, at the expense of their life, health, and career, and then dump them by the side of the road and GOTO 10. It's a fundamentally exploitive business, and it shows in the salaries (especially vs work volume expectations). At least MAMAA pay sufficiently well that it's a mutually beneficial deal to employee and employer.
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  Exploitation is prevalent in the indie sphere as well. Lots of people with little leadership or business experience pulling all sorts of shady stuff and paying worse.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    I guess my perspective on the indie sphere is "well, that's what happens with random people." IMHO we should all expect a 50+ headcount company to be better though. Like, have a business model that doesn't require screwing people over & have functional HR.
    - jonathankoren 5y ago
      Yeah, the idea that major game studio is a toxic hellscape of harassment with HR being so incredibly dysfunctional, is really mind blowing, and yet that's exactly the state of the industry.
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        The "HR exists to protect the company" explanation for bad HR irks me too. HR exists to do whatever the C-suite tells them priorities are. If leadership says "Decrease harassment AND protect the company," then that's a thing HR can do. Or they could not, or say "but make sure to give anyone that makes the company a lot of money a free pass," and HR doesn't try.
jabl 5y ago
Yeah, that's my interpretation too from talking to and reading about people's experiences in the industry. (Disclaimer: I don't work and have never worked in the computer games industry myself) Unfortunately it seems par for the course for many "flashy" creative professions. There's a much larger influx of people wanting to work in the industry than actual jobs, so employers take advantage of the situation to press down wages and treat people like shit (say, unpaid internships).
- jonathankoren 5y ago
  Unpaid internships should be illegal. Not only are they exploitive, but they also classist. The ability to ensure you get “the right kind of person” is the probably real reason for them. It’s no different that legacy admissions really.

ethbr0 5y ago

This is what seems toxic about the entire "enterprise" (i.e. not indie) video game industry. It's figuratively (and sometimes literally) the equivalent of someone cruising college bars looking for folks "willing to be paid for a few private pictures." Take someone with hopes, dreams, aspiration, pay them the minimum you can get away with (that due to their stage of life seems like a lot), dress up the entire experience with pomp and fun and free snacks, tell them how they're going to change the world, extract every ounce of profit you can from them, at the expense of their life, health, and career, and then dump them by the side of the road and GOTO 10. It's a fundamentally exploitive business, and it shows in the salaries (especially vs work volume expectations). At least MAMAA pay sufficiently well that it's a mutually beneficial deal to employee and employer.

meheleventyone 5y ago
Exploitation is prevalent in the indie sphere as well. Lots of people with little leadership or business experience pulling all sorts of shady stuff and paying worse.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  I guess my perspective on the indie sphere is "well, that's what happens with random people." IMHO we should all expect a 50+ headcount company to be better though. Like, have a business model that doesn't require screwing people over & have functional HR.
  - jonathankoren 5y ago
    Yeah, the idea that major game studio is a toxic hellscape of harassment with HR being so incredibly dysfunctional, is really mind blowing, and yet that's exactly the state of the industry.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      The "HR exists to protect the company" explanation for bad HR irks me too. HR exists to do whatever the C-suite tells them priorities are. If leadership says "Decrease harassment AND protect the company," then that's a thing HR can do. Or they could not, or say "but make sure to give anyone that makes the company a lot of money a free pass," and HR doesn't try.

jabl 5y ago

Yeah, that's my interpretation too from talking to and reading about people's experiences in the industry. (Disclaimer: I don't work and have never worked in the computer games industry myself) Unfortunately it seems par for the course for many "flashy" creative professions. There's a much larger influx of people wanting to work in the industry than actual jobs, so employers take advantage of the situation to press down wages and treat people like shit (say, unpaid internships).

jonathankoren 5y ago
Unpaid internships should be illegal. Not only are they exploitive, but they also classist. The ability to ensure you get “the right kind of person” is the probably real reason for them. It’s no different that legacy admissions really.