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Mostly by fucking about the pay: - By refusing to disclose salary range and insisting I should go through the process before they can tell me. They don't get a
by c2h5oh 5y ago
Mostly by fucking about the pay:
- By refusing to disclose salary range and insisting I should go through the process before they can tell me. They don't get an interview.
- By trying paint their company as a startup despite over a billion dollars in investor money or, in one case, being publicly traded. Used to justify below market rate salary.
- By claiming role is fully remote and then slashing salary range at the very end of the process "if you want to work remotely".
- By offering salary range reduced by 40-70% if you are not in US. Doesn't matter that cost of living in Canada or western Europe is not lower. They are paying for the value I'm bringing, so my location should only matter for tax and timezone purposes.
As for situations you described only once I've had someone join the call while driving - 2nd interviewer. I made a joke about the purpose of the whole process for them to have one more employee not one less because he's driving distracted, suggested we should reschedule when everyone can safely fully focus on the interview. They apologized, rescheduled and then offered me salary of 45% of the lower end of the initial range, because while I was "more than qualified for the role they had a multiplier for Canada that applied here".
- b20000 5y agocost of living in california is 4x what it is in western europe
- nondave 5y agoDepends where in California and where in Western Europe
- lhorie 5y agoI assume they mean in an apples-to-apples comparison, not tent-city in SF vs mansion in Warsaw
- watermelon0 5y agoIf we are comparing expensive cities, we might as well start with Geneva: > You would need around 7,858.14$ (7,254.94Fr.) in Geneva to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 8,300.00$ in San Francisco, CA (assuming you rent in both cities). Although other countries/cities in Europe are cheaper than this, you should know that Switzerland has extremely low income tax, compared to others.
- b20000 5y agoThe cost of living doesn't really vary much no matter where you live in California. Rent maybe varies between 2,500 and 4,500 for an apartment, but other costs are still the same.
- c2h5oh 5y agoContrary to popular belief in startups US is not just California.
- cvhashim 5y agoLondon is very expensive
- lhorie 5y agoI'm curious, do you mean you're applying to companies where the interviewers actually have a say in salary negotiations? AFAIK, interviewers almost never a say on compensation, except in very small companies where your interviewer is a co-founded or partner.
- c2h5oh 5y agoI'm not looking. I've got companies reaching out to me. If there is no recruiter or recruiter defers to interviewer to discuss salary range then I want that question out of the way before I spend my time interviewing. It doesn't matter if they tell me what the salary range is or confirm my expectations are within their salary range for that role - I just want to know upfront before everyone involved wastes their time.
- sys_64738 5y agoAs I say above, if there's a fit between company and candidate then things can be done to make sure that everybody is happy. You can't do that with inflexible salary ranges ahead of time.
- c2h5oh 5y agoIf upper bound of their salary range is e.g. 30% below what I make right now it's very unlikely we can find an agreement and even if we could I'd be wary to accept an offer, because as an "expensive hire" I'd be less likely to get a raise in the future.
- jermaustin1 5y agoI start every engagement with something like: this is how much I'm willing to accept. If this falls outside of your range, I wish you all the best.
- lhorie 5y agoI used to prefer explicit salary ranges when my salary was in the middle of the bell curve. On the higher end of the bell curve, I've started to think explicit salary ballparks can be a bit limiting. Companies that pay top dollar are usually on levels.fyi and you can get a pretty decent idea of what the pay rates are even if the recruiter/interviewer doesn't tell you. These companies also typically have multiple roles open at all levels and can't realistically spam people about multiple roles. So a lack of salary numbers upfront can be a tool that you can leverage to upsell yourself towards higher pay roles early in the process (in addition to being able to negotiate numbers at the end).
- kube-system 5y agoEh, that's how negotiation works. In this job market, it's certainly a two-way street. Instead of asking them for a salary range, you should be giving them a salary range. And if they change any expectations during the process, call them out.
- c2h5oh 5y agoIf there isn't a salary range in their job posting AND they are reaching out to me IMO it's perfectly fair for me to either ask for a salary range or for them to confirm my expectations are within their salary range before I commit my time to the interview.
- kube-system 5y agoI don't disagree. I'm just saying that using the details of a job to negotiate pay is just part of the process.
- sys_64738 5y agoSalary ranges don't define a generic position for experienced people. When we're trying to hire we think of the position we're trying to fill and write up an ad for that. But you get varying quality and experience and sometimes great candidates might be worth fighting HR for. It's not the first time I've applied for a more junior position but when my experience becomes apparent then the hiring manager will fight for extra budget allocation to bring in the extra experience. It's a two way street so salary can't really pigeon hole candidates ahead of time as those must hire candidates would slip away. Generally be the time you're talking salary then the rapport is there and honesty is key. We'll ask you what you're looking for and try to make it happen. There are various tools companies have such as stock, sign on bonuses, etc, to allow compensation flexibility. You have to be willing to work with the hiring companies.
- c2h5oh 5y ago> You have to be willing to work with the hiring companies. Agreed if I'm looking for a job. If companies are reaching out to me when I'm not looking it's up to them to show me there is some upside to jumping ship, other than default buzzword package. Stonewalling any attempts to confirm an agreement is even remotely possible is a dealbreaker for me in that situation.