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I mean we could have like a bar but that would severely limit opportunities of smart people who can code. It’s one of the best/worst things about our industry.

I mean we could have like a bar but that would severely limit opportunities of smart people who can code. It’s one of the best/worst things about our industry. Personally, I wouldn’t suffer, but I think as an industry we're unique in this way and it’s kind of overall maybe slightly better than not.

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
> that would severely limit opportunities of smart people who can code Whether or not that's true, is it really important? I guess it depends on your perspective. Do you think the industry exists to provide job opportunities, or to solve real business problems?
- asimpletune 5y ago
  I think by serving an alternative way of doing things we're a nice position to imagine making that comparison. So, which industries are more innovative software/tech or those that have some kind of standards/gate-keeping? Admittedly it's not like a super fair comparison because we're still in the a very nascent phase of software as an industry, but I think as a concept the question still poses merit. Maybe when the industry matures more we'll finally establish a bar, but in the meanwhile I think most of the money people feel that there's just too much work to do for that to happen. Personally, I don't really know what's the optimal way to do things. Mainly my point is that it's interesting that we even exist. Like, we are one of the only "professionals" who don't have any standards to adhere... and this is precisely why interviews are so hard in our field. Sometimes they're asinine, as has been discussed here. (FWIW I try really hard to be a good interviewer and to give the candidate a pleasant experience and to design everything so they feel fairly judged and I get good signal)
WorldMaker 5y ago
A lot of professions split into separate job categories for white collar/blue collar or "formally educated"/"on the job learning". Lawyer/paralegal, Doctor/RN/Nurse Practitioner, etc. I don't know if that is something that software could use, but it certainly is a known option, and might help. In some ways software already has bespoke versions of those career paths, but there's no standardization from company to company and that's part of what makes interviewing hard because even career paths mean different things to different companies.
- asimpletune 5y ago
  Yeah, apprenticeship would be a cool route to take.

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago

> that would severely limit opportunities of smart people who can code Whether or not that's true, is it really important? I guess it depends on your perspective. Do you think the industry exists to provide job opportunities, or to solve real business problems?

asimpletune 5y ago
I think by serving an alternative way of doing things we're a nice position to imagine making that comparison. So, which industries are more innovative software/tech or those that have some kind of standards/gate-keeping? Admittedly it's not like a super fair comparison because we're still in the a very nascent phase of software as an industry, but I think as a concept the question still poses merit. Maybe when the industry matures more we'll finally establish a bar, but in the meanwhile I think most of the money people feel that there's just too much work to do for that to happen. Personally, I don't really know what's the optimal way to do things. Mainly my point is that it's interesting that we even exist. Like, we are one of the only "professionals" who don't have any standards to adhere... and this is precisely why interviews are so hard in our field. Sometimes they're asinine, as has been discussed here. (FWIW I try really hard to be a good interviewer and to give the candidate a pleasant experience and to design everything so they feel fairly judged and I get good signal)

WorldMaker 5y ago

A lot of professions split into separate job categories for white collar/blue collar or "formally educated"/"on the job learning". Lawyer/paralegal, Doctor/RN/Nurse Practitioner, etc. I don't know if that is something that software could use, but it certainly is a known option, and might help. In some ways software already has bespoke versions of those career paths, but there's no standardization from company to company and that's part of what makes interviewing hard because even career paths mean different things to different companies.

asimpletune 5y ago
Yeah, apprenticeship would be a cool route to take.