4 ms·

I think there's a simpler explanation. The theft crowd and the "defund the police" crowd have semi-independently come to the conclusion that policing and legal

I think there's a simpler explanation. The theft crowd and the "defund the police" crowd have semi-independently come to the conclusion that policing and legal systems are not very good at stopping or preventing most crime.

chrischen 5y ago
These types of crimes are indicators of underlying social and societal flaws. America has a very high incarceration rate. Either our people genetically are just predisposed to crime or we’re doing something wrong with our policies, governing, and equality.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  I would like to see the stats with people who are in prison for low level drug offenses taken out. I suspect the numbers would start to be much closer to the European numbers. I personal theory is that there are two types of criminals - normal people who do the occasionally stupid thing (stealing a single item from retail or getting into a bar fight), and people who make crime their career path. The US model is to treat everybody as being in the latter group, while the Scandinavian model is to treat everybody as being in the first group. Instead we should treat people based on who they are, even if that means very different sentences for the same crime to different people.
  - clavicat 5y ago
    >I would like to see the stats with people who are in prison for low level drug offenses taken out. Lucky for you, criminologists have crunched the numbers over and over again. Only 20% of prisoners are incarcerated for drug offenses—not just “low-level” ones. Furthermore, many of them are violent offenders who pleaded down to lesser offenses as part of a plea bargain. In other words, the United States could release every single drug offender from prison and still have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Mass incarceration is overwhelmingly driven by violent offenders. America is simply a much more violent country than any European one.
    - greedo 5y ago
      It's unfortunate that the US views the carceral system as a punitive one instead of a rehabilitative one. Recividism is so high because even if you go in a decent person who made a mistake, you'll come out violent and often broken.
      - chrischen 5y ago
        Is is accurate to describe prison as college for the criminal career path?
- simplestats 5y ago
  The whole point, though, is that incarceration rate is (assumed to be at least) a trade-off against crime rate, which is what really matters. And the US is not the highest there.
pessimizer 5y ago
Who is the "theft crowd"?
- cowmoo728 5y ago
  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/organized-crime-rings-are-behind-spate-of-high-end-store-robberies-in-bay-area-experts-say-01637629485 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/organized-crime-rings-are-... https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/organized-crime-rings-are-driving-auto-burglaries-sf-offering-cash-rewards-to-break-them-up/ https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/organized-crime-rings-are-dr... https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Bay-Area-retail-theft-bust-nets-8-million-in-16673449.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Bay-Area-retail-th... There are organized groups recruiting significant numbers of people to do retail theft, bike theft, and car break-ins. The police and legal system haven't been very effective at combating this, so over the past few years the theft has become very public and visible.
- jiveturkey42 5y ago
  People who steal things

chrischen 5y ago

These types of crimes are indicators of underlying social and societal flaws. America has a very high incarceration rate. Either our people genetically are just predisposed to crime or we’re doing something wrong with our policies, governing, and equality.

tomjen3 5y ago
I would like to see the stats with people who are in prison for low level drug offenses taken out. I suspect the numbers would start to be much closer to the European numbers. I personal theory is that there are two types of criminals - normal people who do the occasionally stupid thing (stealing a single item from retail or getting into a bar fight), and people who make crime their career path. The US model is to treat everybody as being in the latter group, while the Scandinavian model is to treat everybody as being in the first group. Instead we should treat people based on who they are, even if that means very different sentences for the same crime to different people.
- clavicat 5y ago
  >I would like to see the stats with people who are in prison for low level drug offenses taken out. Lucky for you, criminologists have crunched the numbers over and over again. Only 20% of prisoners are incarcerated for drug offenses—not just “low-level” ones. Furthermore, many of them are violent offenders who pleaded down to lesser offenses as part of a plea bargain. In other words, the United States could release every single drug offender from prison and still have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Mass incarceration is overwhelmingly driven by violent offenders. America is simply a much more violent country than any European one.
  - greedo 5y ago
    It's unfortunate that the US views the carceral system as a punitive one instead of a rehabilitative one. Recividism is so high because even if you go in a decent person who made a mistake, you'll come out violent and often broken.
    - chrischen 5y ago
      Is is accurate to describe prison as college for the criminal career path?
simplestats 5y ago
The whole point, though, is that incarceration rate is (assumed to be at least) a trade-off against crime rate, which is what really matters. And the US is not the highest there.

pessimizer 5y ago

Who is the "theft crowd"?

cowmoo728 5y ago
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/organized-crime-rings-are-behind-spate-of-high-end-store-robberies-in-bay-area-experts-say-01637629485 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/organized-crime-rings-are-... https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/organized-crime-rings-are-driving-auto-burglaries-sf-offering-cash-rewards-to-break-them-up/ https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/organized-crime-rings-are-dr... https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Bay-Area-retail-theft-bust-nets-8-million-in-16673449.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Bay-Area-retail-th... There are organized groups recruiting significant numbers of people to do retail theft, bike theft, and car break-ins. The police and legal system haven't been very effective at combating this, so over the past few years the theft has become very public and visible.
jiveturkey42 5y ago
People who steal things