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I often think that Linux needs to divorce itself from the notion of distributions and instead we need to find a better way to deliver these all-inclusive experi

I often think that Linux needs to divorce itself from the notion of distributions and instead we need to find a better way to deliver these all-inclusive experiences in some alternate way. Specifically in this case I love everything that Elementary is doing but wish you could "bring your own OS" This is the issue with Linux Desktop - every time you want to try something new you need to effectively reinvent the wheel for yourself. Most things end up being the same though, my browser is my browser, my data is my data. I can compartmentalize some of that to make it portable between distributions but I feel like that is solving the problem from the wrong direction. At some point I would hope this becomes a DE like Gnome or KDE. Inventing your own programming language, app marketplace etc... is admirable but seems like it is being done in vein.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Well, if you ask the folk over at Red Hat, they agree. And they're doing it within their code, which is both working and simultaneously making the old-timers very, very angry. They've been sponsoring GNOME, which has been pushing the simplified, mobile-friendly look for almost a decade now. They've also (I believe) been behind the scenes in GNOME's push to kill theming on the behalf of developers who hate their apps getting themed, which of course distributions hate because that hurts the ability to stand out. If GNOME looks the same on every distribution, your distribution sticks out less. Red Hat has also been behind sponsoring SystemD, which for better or worse brought every distribution kicking and screaming into a more consistent "low level" layout. Again though, this makes management across Linux systems somewhat easier, while making distribution-specific differences smaller. Red Hat has been behind Flatpak, which compartmentalizes applications and means that they can run on any distribution when built against a common runtime. For app developers and new people, this is great as a "Linux app" just runs on any "Linux" distribution, easy. For old-timers and technical folk (even on here)... again it's with kicking and screaming. And if you are a distribution author, every distribution now runs the same apps, so what's so special about your distro again? Red Hat has also been behind PulseAudio and PipeWire, which changed how audio worked on Linux... again with kicking and screaming. The point is, Red Hat keeps working on technology that, I would argue, makes Linux more consistent and approachable to newcomers, but massively changes how it works which angers old-timers and also happens to reduce diversity within distributions as to how things are done. This makes things easier for programmers, but erodes away the proliferation of distributions because the differences between them get smaller and smaller. Because, if Red Hat gets their way, consider: Every desktop that uses GNOME looks the same because there isn't as much theming. Every desktop runs the same apps using Flatpak. Every desktop has similar low-level internals with SystemD. If you are a distribution maker, not much left to stand out now, is there? Again, app developers love this, but if you are a distribution maker, Red Hat is trying to kill your edge.
- Taywee 5y ago
  As a side question, who is kicking and screaming about PipeWire? PulseAudio had contention because of compromises and sacrifices in various places, but PipeWire is really quite great for basically every use case, professional and casual alike, and effectively unifies the long PA/JACK split. I couldn't imagine anybody who has had to fight with Linux audio being anything less than ecstatic for PipeWire.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    It's bad wording on my part. PipeWire has been well-received, but that's partly because the kicking and screaming over PulseAudio (which PipeWire implements) already happened. Though if PipeWire had been introduced before PulseAudio occurred, it would have no doubt gone through the hate phase.
    - rvense 5y ago
      I don't use Pulseaudio, so I only know it from "I've heard..." and that's all been negative, that it doesn't work or is annoying. For Pipewire, I've only actually heard good things. Maybe I'm talking to a specific set of people, but I still might try it.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        PA mostly works, nowadays. It still spontaneously gets muted, once in a long while, but if I pop up enough different volume controls, I have always found a button to unmute it.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
      > Though if PipeWire had been introduced before PulseAudio occurred, it would have no doubt gone through the hate phase. PulseAudio's hate phase was caused by it breaking everything. If PipeWire had been introduced and worked, out of the box, correctly, then I doubt that it would have been poorly received.
FinalBriefing 5y ago
Yea, even just something simple like backing up your home directory, and being able to store the packages you've installed via a package manager. I've done this sort of thing myself, but it's a manual process, and you need to know how to write some bash.
pxc 5y ago
> At some point I would hope this becomes a DE like Gnome or KDE. you can install Pantheon, the desktop from Elementary OS, on some other distros

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Well, if you ask the folk over at Red Hat, they agree. And they're doing it within their code, which is both working and simultaneously making the old-timers very, very angry. They've been sponsoring GNOME, which has been pushing the simplified, mobile-friendly look for almost a decade now. They've also (I believe) been behind the scenes in GNOME's push to kill theming on the behalf of developers who hate their apps getting themed, which of course distributions hate because that hurts the ability to stand out. If GNOME looks the same on every distribution, your distribution sticks out less. Red Hat has also been behind sponsoring SystemD, which for better or worse brought every distribution kicking and screaming into a more consistent "low level" layout. Again though, this makes management across Linux systems somewhat easier, while making distribution-specific differences smaller. Red Hat has been behind Flatpak, which compartmentalizes applications and means that they can run on any distribution when built against a common runtime. For app developers and new people, this is great as a "Linux app" just runs on any "Linux" distribution, easy. For old-timers and technical folk (even on here)... again it's with kicking and screaming. And if you are a distribution author, every distribution now runs the same apps, so what's so special about your distro again? Red Hat has also been behind PulseAudio and PipeWire, which changed how audio worked on Linux... again with kicking and screaming. The point is, Red Hat keeps working on technology that, I would argue, makes Linux more consistent and approachable to newcomers, but massively changes how it works which angers old-timers and also happens to reduce diversity within distributions as to how things are done. This makes things easier for programmers, but erodes away the proliferation of distributions because the differences between them get smaller and smaller. Because, if Red Hat gets their way, consider: Every desktop that uses GNOME looks the same because there isn't as much theming. Every desktop runs the same apps using Flatpak. Every desktop has similar low-level internals with SystemD. If you are a distribution maker, not much left to stand out now, is there? Again, app developers love this, but if you are a distribution maker, Red Hat is trying to kill your edge.

Taywee 5y ago
As a side question, who is kicking and screaming about PipeWire? PulseAudio had contention because of compromises and sacrifices in various places, but PipeWire is really quite great for basically every use case, professional and casual alike, and effectively unifies the long PA/JACK split. I couldn't imagine anybody who has had to fight with Linux audio being anything less than ecstatic for PipeWire.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  It's bad wording on my part. PipeWire has been well-received, but that's partly because the kicking and screaming over PulseAudio (which PipeWire implements) already happened. Though if PipeWire had been introduced before PulseAudio occurred, it would have no doubt gone through the hate phase.
  - rvense 5y ago
    I don't use Pulseaudio, so I only know it from "I've heard..." and that's all been negative, that it doesn't work or is annoying. For Pipewire, I've only actually heard good things. Maybe I'm talking to a specific set of people, but I still might try it.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      PA mostly works, nowadays. It still spontaneously gets muted, once in a long while, but if I pop up enough different volume controls, I have always found a button to unmute it.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    > Though if PipeWire had been introduced before PulseAudio occurred, it would have no doubt gone through the hate phase. PulseAudio's hate phase was caused by it breaking everything. If PipeWire had been introduced and worked, out of the box, correctly, then I doubt that it would have been poorly received.

FinalBriefing 5y ago

Yea, even just something simple like backing up your home directory, and being able to store the packages you've installed via a package manager. I've done this sort of thing myself, but it's a manual process, and you need to know how to write some bash.

pxc 5y ago

> At some point I would hope this becomes a DE like Gnome or KDE. you can install Pantheon, the desktop from Elementary OS, on some other distros