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I'm really sorry Al Gore is associated with this. I feel as if it is going to skew the response. I really wish we could have the conversation completely divorce

I'm really sorry Al Gore is associated with this. I feel as if it is going to skew the response. I really wish we could have the conversation completely divorced from the politics, which aren't relevant. The more I think about it, the more it doesn't sit right with me either. Here's the thing: if I'm reading your stuff on a social network I'm doing so because it's you -- it's a real person. Even if the only thing you do is retweet things people tell you to, you are still the one doing it. If I'm annoyed, I'm annoyed at you. I might email or message you and complain; because I know there's a real person I can speak with. This is exactly like giving people a script and having them call up friends and read it to them, like one of those telephone marketers. Would you volunteer to be a telephone marketer to all your friends for a cause? And even if you would, would you then automate the process so that whatever their feedback is, it wouldn't matter? I have friends that post things I find annoying. I know I post things other folks find annoying. But that's the way it's supposed to be -- having a friend is having some weird assortment of styles, opinions, and foibles that you enjoy. This isn't illegal, immoral, or any of that. It's just sad. I wonder if the people doing this have thought it through -- would they be happy with dozens of organizations all doing this continuously? Could social systems even function in such an environment?

Alex3917 15y ago
"Would you volunteer to be a telephone marketer to all your friends for a cause?" No, but I wear my EFF shirt all the time.[1] It's a continuum, and what is socially acceptable is highly dependent on your social class, and also your particular social circle. [1] The old one, I probably wouldn't wear the ones they currently make.
- kposehn 15y ago
  > No, but I wear my EFF shirt all the time. (The old one, I probably wouldn't wear the ones they currently make.) It's a continuum, and what is socially acceptable is highly dependent on your social class, and also your particular social circle. I'd say this is different however. You can always choose which EFF shirt you wear and whether to wear it or not. With this, you give up access and any means to choose what is said. Think of it like wearing an EFF shirt where there is an e-ink display that changes the message at any time and you can only take the shirt off after the message has been said and the damage is done.
rhizome 15y ago
It's a short hop to this from the last FB privacy issue where peoples' images were going to be hooked up to ads for things they had Like'd. I don't think it's quite as good of a selling method for Gore's people to say "Put your face on whatever we want to say (for a good cause, and also the children)," but the appeal to FB and advertisers/charities is the same. At the end of the day, Gore is renting a mailing list. That's it's a list of mailing sources is just moving the agreement one-step up the chain of association. I agree: sad.
- DanielBMarkham 15y ago
  And, putting on my evil marketer hat, the goal here isn't to spread a message; it's to grow the size of the list. To use the network effect built into these social sites to its maximum potential. If this time if you have 400K or so participants, your leverage those in the right fashion? Next time you should easily be in the millions. The mailing list potential alone could be incredible. You could just harvest email addresses and network connections, then wait six months and send out a mailer that kind of starts off like "Joe Smith referred us to you because he knows you're concerned about X....." And then, if you were really evil, you'd pick up interests from all the friend links and incorporate that info as well. I want to be clear. I'm not saying these guys are doing any of that. I'm saying that once you agree to be a zombie like this, the effects can be very far-reaching indeed.
  - kposehn 15y ago
    Completely agreed. With a list of people that agree to spread your message in such a way you could do quite a lot. However, despite the general apathy about privacy, I think this is something that could very quickly backfire and cause a lot of issues. I'm looking over CAN-SPAM law right now and there are a few long-shot ways this may qualify as unsolicited promotion (though I haven't really dug into the the law far enough to gauge). The short term ramifications are major media/public push-back. The long term ones are legality, libel and fraud.
  - rhizome 15y ago
    What are the current limits on FB data retention, do applications still get your friends, all of their friends and contact information?
kevinpet 15y ago
This differs slightly from volunteering to call up all your friends. This is more akin to authorizing Al Gore's robo callers to use your phone number so your friends pick up the phone when they see caller ID.

Alex3917 15y ago

"Would you volunteer to be a telephone marketer to all your friends for a cause?" No, but I wear my EFF shirt all the time.[1] It's a continuum, and what is socially acceptable is highly dependent on your social class, and also your particular social circle. [1] The old one, I probably wouldn't wear the ones they currently make.

kposehn 15y ago
> No, but I wear my EFF shirt all the time. (The old one, I probably wouldn't wear the ones they currently make.) It's a continuum, and what is socially acceptable is highly dependent on your social class, and also your particular social circle. I'd say this is different however. You can always choose which EFF shirt you wear and whether to wear it or not. With this, you give up access and any means to choose what is said. Think of it like wearing an EFF shirt where there is an e-ink display that changes the message at any time and you can only take the shirt off after the message has been said and the damage is done.

rhizome 15y ago

It's a short hop to this from the last FB privacy issue where peoples' images were going to be hooked up to ads for things they had Like'd. I don't think it's quite as good of a selling method for Gore's people to say "Put your face on whatever we want to say (for a good cause, and also the children)," but the appeal to FB and advertisers/charities is the same. At the end of the day, Gore is renting a mailing list. That's it's a list of mailing sources is just moving the agreement one-step up the chain of association. I agree: sad.

DanielBMarkham 15y ago
And, putting on my evil marketer hat, the goal here isn't to spread a message; it's to grow the size of the list. To use the network effect built into these social sites to its maximum potential. If this time if you have 400K or so participants, your leverage those in the right fashion? Next time you should easily be in the millions. The mailing list potential alone could be incredible. You could just harvest email addresses and network connections, then wait six months and send out a mailer that kind of starts off like "Joe Smith referred us to you because he knows you're concerned about X....." And then, if you were really evil, you'd pick up interests from all the friend links and incorporate that info as well. I want to be clear. I'm not saying these guys are doing any of that. I'm saying that once you agree to be a zombie like this, the effects can be very far-reaching indeed.
- kposehn 15y ago
  Completely agreed. With a list of people that agree to spread your message in such a way you could do quite a lot. However, despite the general apathy about privacy, I think this is something that could very quickly backfire and cause a lot of issues. I'm looking over CAN-SPAM law right now and there are a few long-shot ways this may qualify as unsolicited promotion (though I haven't really dug into the the law far enough to gauge). The short term ramifications are major media/public push-back. The long term ones are legality, libel and fraud.
- rhizome 15y ago
  What are the current limits on FB data retention, do applications still get your friends, all of their friends and contact information?

kevinpet 15y ago

This differs slightly from volunteering to call up all your friends. This is more akin to authorizing Al Gore's robo callers to use your phone number so your friends pick up the phone when they see caller ID.