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Bulldoze vs Vetocracy is not an axis. Left/Right, and Lib/Auth, are axis, of political "persuasion"; they are suited for Venn diagrammatic overlap. You can be

Bulldoze vs Vetocracy is not an axis. Left/Right, and Lib/Auth, are axis, of political "persuasion"; they are suited for Venn diagrammatic overlap. You can be both leftist and rightish (centrist). Bulldoze and Vetocracy are modes (of governance, of process, etc). You can't be both bulldozery and vetocratic on a topic. If a process is half bulldozer, half vetocratic, the effect would be a policy wash, and external factors will decide. As the article explains, the qualifications of Bulldoze/Veto exists on different levels (outside vs inside, level 1 vs level 2, foreign vs domestic). Ergo: Axis are extensive, in that you can parse what is lefty and what is righty about a single part of the system (eg. a particular law). Ergo: The Bulldozer system is intensive: you can't pull apart a law and say "this is mostly bulldozer, but a little veto". The intensive applies to processes, the extensive applies to the participants and/or the product.

analog31 5y ago
>>> Bulldoze vs Vetocracy is not an axis. Indeed, these are just tactics, that can be chosen by anybody on any axis.
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> You can't be both bulldozery and vetocratic on a topic. If a process is half bulldozer, half vetocratic, the effect would be a policy wash, and external factors will decide. It's still a spectrum. Take driving. The maximally-bulldozery position is that no licensing is required, no traffic regulations exist, the ability to drive is gated solely by the ability to reach the pedals and even that isn't a law. The maximally-vetocratic position is that cars are prohibited. The moderate position is that adults can drive if they pass a basic driving test and there are fines for risky behavior.
- lil_dispaches 5y ago
  Nice try, but You conflate the process with the policy/position. It is not a "bulldozer position" to say "anybody can drive", that is an extreme Libertarian position. Bulldozer is not a position. Libertarianism a process. A middle of the road position could be had through either bulldozery or vetocracy; furthermore, from the law or position itself, you could not say whether it was produced by bulldozer or vetocracy, you would need to know truths about the system.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    I think you're confusing the process of changing a policy from the policy itself. You could say that getting rid of regulations is bulldozery and adding new ones is vetocratic and in that way be describing the process rather than the policy. Now imagine a regulation that requires the driver of a car to have at least one hand on the steering wheel at all times. This is clearly a vetocratic policy -- it effectively prohibits self-driving cars. But you could also have a bulldozery policy, like a law prohibiting homeowners' associations. The HOA is a vetocratic institution, so banning them is bulldozery.

analog31 5y ago

>>> Bulldoze vs Vetocracy is not an axis. Indeed, these are just tactics, that can be chosen by anybody on any axis.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

> You can't be both bulldozery and vetocratic on a topic. If a process is half bulldozer, half vetocratic, the effect would be a policy wash, and external factors will decide. It's still a spectrum. Take driving. The maximally-bulldozery position is that no licensing is required, no traffic regulations exist, the ability to drive is gated solely by the ability to reach the pedals and even that isn't a law. The maximally-vetocratic position is that cars are prohibited. The moderate position is that adults can drive if they pass a basic driving test and there are fines for risky behavior.

lil_dispaches 5y ago
Nice try, but You conflate the process with the policy/position. It is not a "bulldozer position" to say "anybody can drive", that is an extreme Libertarian position. Bulldozer is not a position. Libertarianism a process. A middle of the road position could be had through either bulldozery or vetocracy; furthermore, from the law or position itself, you could not say whether it was produced by bulldozer or vetocracy, you would need to know truths about the system.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  I think you're confusing the process of changing a policy from the policy itself. You could say that getting rid of regulations is bulldozery and adding new ones is vetocratic and in that way be describing the process rather than the policy. Now imagine a regulation that requires the driver of a car to have at least one hand on the steering wheel at all times. This is clearly a vetocratic policy -- it effectively prohibits self-driving cars. But you could also have a bulldozery policy, like a law prohibiting homeowners' associations. The HOA is a vetocratic institution, so banning them is bulldozery.