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> SSD was the only option. When GNOME apps started moving towards GTK3, CSD became the only option. What you're asking for is a new feature because GNOME never

> SSD was the only option. When GNOME apps started moving towards GTK3, CSD became the only option. What you're asking for is a new feature because GNOME never supported both. Really? , You should just hide the Window titlebar , and paint your own CSD, titlebars were not forced on you https://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-decorated https://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-wi... , this is how for example splashscreens are implemented or fancy non rectangular windows , but to be honest I am not 100% sure if GNOME2 was also an asshold and disabled this GTK feature just to be spacial, if you can confirm then let me know if I am right then you need to acknowledge the fact that SSD was not forced on you(not Qt,not GTK, not even Windows/OSX forced SSD on you )

shatteredgate 5y ago
Sure, the feature existed in GTK but what I mean there is that GNOME 2 apps didn't use that. They never painted their own CSD. Sure some apps did for splash screens but not for ordinary app windows. Then when GNOME 3 happened they all redesigned their apps to only use CSD. They didn't implement SSD in Wayland because it wasn't part of the design and by then all the GNOME 2 apps were already gone anyway. That API is even still present in GTK4, the reason you saw a change is because the apps (the callers of the API) changed how they use it.
- simion314 5y ago
  But the issue we have with GNOME is not that they changed their own apps to CSD, the issue is that their Window Manager does not paint the SSD for non-GNOME app, I hope this is clear now or let me try to simplify it Before - you could have both CSD and SSD application run on GNOME After - you are FORCED to implement CSD on GNOME because their Window Manager will not paint the SSD for you, even for old application that existed before GNOME3 was created. It would make sense for GNOME to support this old applications or toolkits that do not implement CSD , I really hope sanity will prevail over designer ego (it happened at Apple so there is a chance it will happen at GNOME after a few years of feedback)
  - shatteredgate 5y ago
    >you are FORCED to implement CSD on GNOME because their Window Manager will not paint the SSD for you, even for old application that existed before GNOME3 was created. No, this is not true at all. Old applications and toolkits that existed before GNOME 3 was created will use X11, and the legacy decorations will still work there.
    - simion314 5y ago
      >No, this is not true at all. Old applications and toolkits that existed before GNOME 3 was created will use X11, and the legacy decorations will still work there. OK, good news then for old apps and games , is there a solution ready for new applications like Qt,Electron ones that were not created for GNOME? Can you resize them on Wayland or you are forced on X11 ? If you do not use Wayland is he Window Manager still implementing the SSD or they removed the code (I think I read something about code getting removed but I am might be thinking about something else). So my question if I were to test GNOME+Wayland will this work correct: 1 old games , games that use DOXbox or emulators 2 new games in Wine or native 3 Qt or other apps like Intellij,Thunderbird, Visual Studio Code, VLC, Slack (does GNOME still has no system tray for Slack/email clients ?) 4 is GTK still recommended for cross platform development? isn't cross platform support and GNOME design in a contradiction? any such example of a cross platform GTK4 complex application I am sorry if my knowledge is a bit outdated, I am no longer reading Linux news ,podcasts or Linux reddits (I got tired about reading all the small drama stuff, the big news will reach me somehow anyway)
      - shatteredgate 5y ago
        1. Those will probably use SDL which has got support for wayland CSD: https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/pull/4068 https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/pull/4068 2. Wine apps will probably have to draw the win32 decorations. Native apps can implement their own decorations or can use GTK or Qt to draw their decorations. 3. Qt does have its own CSD decorations, VLC should be able to use that. Intellij is a Java app so I'm not sure about that one but Thunderbird should use GTK decorations. The rest are Electron apps and Electron has a PR open for CSD: https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/29618 https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/29618 A system tray can be added to GNOME with an extension. 4. GTK is not a cross platform toolkit like Qt where it tries to draw everything with native widgets, but it is a portable toolkit meaning that you can port applications to other platforms and they will more or less look the same. I don't know anyone using it ship Windows applications, some improvements have been made to get it working better on Windows though: https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/03/18/build-and-run-gtk-4-applications-with-visual-studio/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/03/18/buil...

shatteredgate 5y ago

Sure, the feature existed in GTK but what I mean there is that GNOME 2 apps didn't use that. They never painted their own CSD. Sure some apps did for splash screens but not for ordinary app windows. Then when GNOME 3 happened they all redesigned their apps to only use CSD. They didn't implement SSD in Wayland because it wasn't part of the design and by then all the GNOME 2 apps were already gone anyway. That API is even still present in GTK4, the reason you saw a change is because the apps (the callers of the API) changed how they use it.

simion314 5y ago
But the issue we have with GNOME is not that they changed their own apps to CSD, the issue is that their Window Manager does not paint the SSD for non-GNOME app, I hope this is clear now or let me try to simplify it Before - you could have both CSD and SSD application run on GNOME After - you are FORCED to implement CSD on GNOME because their Window Manager will not paint the SSD for you, even for old application that existed before GNOME3 was created. It would make sense for GNOME to support this old applications or toolkits that do not implement CSD , I really hope sanity will prevail over designer ego (it happened at Apple so there is a chance it will happen at GNOME after a few years of feedback)
- shatteredgate 5y ago
  >you are FORCED to implement CSD on GNOME because their Window Manager will not paint the SSD for you, even for old application that existed before GNOME3 was created. No, this is not true at all. Old applications and toolkits that existed before GNOME 3 was created will use X11, and the legacy decorations will still work there.
  - simion314 5y ago
    >No, this is not true at all. Old applications and toolkits that existed before GNOME 3 was created will use X11, and the legacy decorations will still work there. OK, good news then for old apps and games , is there a solution ready for new applications like Qt,Electron ones that were not created for GNOME? Can you resize them on Wayland or you are forced on X11 ? If you do not use Wayland is he Window Manager still implementing the SSD or they removed the code (I think I read something about code getting removed but I am might be thinking about something else). So my question if I were to test GNOME+Wayland will this work correct: 1 old games , games that use DOXbox or emulators 2 new games in Wine or native 3 Qt or other apps like Intellij,Thunderbird, Visual Studio Code, VLC, Slack (does GNOME still has no system tray for Slack/email clients ?) 4 is GTK still recommended for cross platform development? isn't cross platform support and GNOME design in a contradiction? any such example of a cross platform GTK4 complex application I am sorry if my knowledge is a bit outdated, I am no longer reading Linux news ,podcasts or Linux reddits (I got tired about reading all the small drama stuff, the big news will reach me somehow anyway)
    - shatteredgate 5y ago
      1. Those will probably use SDL which has got support for wayland CSD: https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/pull/4068 https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/pull/4068 2. Wine apps will probably have to draw the win32 decorations. Native apps can implement their own decorations or can use GTK or Qt to draw their decorations. 3. Qt does have its own CSD decorations, VLC should be able to use that. Intellij is a Java app so I'm not sure about that one but Thunderbird should use GTK decorations. The rest are Electron apps and Electron has a PR open for CSD: https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/29618 https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/29618 A system tray can be added to GNOME with an extension. 4. GTK is not a cross platform toolkit like Qt where it tries to draw everything with native widgets, but it is a portable toolkit meaning that you can port applications to other platforms and they will more or less look the same. I don't know anyone using it ship Windows applications, some improvements have been made to get it working better on Windows though: https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/03/18/build-and-run-gtk-4-applications-with-visual-studio/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/03/18/buil...