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I think the personal freedom and privacy implications of self driving cars with centralized communication are rarely talked about. What happens when your vehicl

I think the personal freedom and privacy implications of self driving cars with centralized communication are rarely talked about. What happens when your vehicle decides you can't travel to an area of civil unrest (for your safety), or refuses to drive you to the gun store?

test6554 5y ago
Ramming into protesters vehicle package should be selected at time of purchase and will cost an extra $74.99.
- gonzoflip 5y ago
  Hmmm, I feel like this reply is making light of other's deaths. I was more talking about the ability to attend a protest. I believe in personal freedom, as well as personal responsibility.
  - beervirus 5y ago
    - gonzoflip 5y ago
      I don't really understand the connection to some sort of hypothetical situation about protesting in the street. My position is that I want my vehicle to start when I turn the key, and drive to where I take it. I think people are giving up a lot more freedom than what they are actually thinking about when they buy these cars that are able to be remotely controlled or disabled.
    - malfist 5y ago
      Are you seriously suggesting that protesting is an execution worthy offense?
      - xanaxagoras 5y ago
        If you're protesting in the middle of the street for the express purpose of disrupting traffic, you get what you get.
        throwaway2048 5y ago
        So in other words, you believe that people protesting in the street deserve to die.
        beervirus 5y ago
        “Deserve” is maybe a little too normative. Certainly they shouldn’t act all surprised pikachu when it happens though.
        malfist 5y ago
        You could have more empathy for your fellow humans.
      - beervirus 5y ago
        Not at all. But getting run over is certainly the reasonably foreseeable consequence of your actions. It’s not victim-blaming to suggest that people are ultimately responsible for their own safety, and they ought to take precautions.
dangus 5y ago
I don't think this is quite that extreme of a slippery slope. For one, areas of unrest are already restricted by physical police and national guard barriers. For example, during the unrest in 2020, Chicago physically raised its drawbridges. Anyone who really wants to get somewhere difficult would probably choose a bicycle or legs, so you need physical police barriers in that case. Refusing to drive you to the gun store sounds kind of silly when the government would more easily just ban gun stores (the right to bear arms doesn't include the right to buy them at a retail store). I realize you're just giving out an example but it was not a great one. Preventing you from driving somewhere is a simple as putting up a gate and closing it. Also, driving at all is not a right. It's a licensed privilege that can be taken away if you break traffic laws or drive while intoxicated. I think your perspective is coming from a car-focused area of the country (which is most of them). But, someone in NYC or Chicago might point out to you that they use a transit card that has the ability to track their movements through stations, and that they mainly travel by buses and trains that have government-owned surveillance cameras all over them. Despite this, it has has failed to turn into any kind of dystopian urban nightmare. What I'm getting at is that the technology is blamed for things that are actually just public policy, laws, and law enforcement. The privacy implications for using a smartphone in the Western world are a lot different than in China, even though the technology itself is identical. What we actually need is legislation surrounding automotive communication and centralized control and privacy. The rights that automobile owners have should be better enshrined in law rather than trusting auto manufacturers. This, I think, will eventually happen. We're still sorely lacking a general nationwide privacy law on the Internet in the US.
- gonzoflip 5y ago
  Nah, I will continue to buy disconnected vehicles for as long as possible since I chose to live in a rural area of the country, and I expect my machine to start when I tell it to. People that live in Chicago or New York choose to give up their ability to travel without the need for the government that is their choice. And didn't the pandemic have a major impact on some public transit lines operation? Again I believe in personal responsibility and freedom, I choose not to have that level of reliance on others. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/nyregion/mass-transit-service-cuts-covid.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/nyregion/mass-transit-ser... And while driving on public roads is not a right, I still want my vehicle to start regardless of the governments opinions on whether I should be traveling :) I chose guns because it was something that large corps like to virtue signal about. Also, while the bill of rights does not protect buying guns at retail, most of the cries for increased gun control actually want people to be forced to buy firearms in a retail setting so that the transfer can be tracked in the nation DB, which does not happen with private sales. Also, multiple cities literally shut down transit during the protests last year due to "safety". https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/article/21140422/protests-impact-transit-service-in-several-us-cities https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/article/21140...
chaostheory 5y ago
GM cars have phoned home for well over a decade now. Self driving features tend to also be extra optional features that cost more.
- gonzoflip 5y ago
  So what? People can choose to have connected vehicles if they want. I choose to avoid them and the newest gm vehicle I have owned was a 1997 Saturn. My personal choices and decisions are a product of my values and beliefs, and I intend on avoiding the potential for remote intervention as long as possible.
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    My point is that none of this new or novel. Avoiding it is also near impossible unless you make restrictive life choices.
    - gonzoflip 5y ago
      Impossible is a massive exaggeration, I have not had an issue with it without even trying. Heck I am shopping brand new 911s right now, and they are not connected unless they have a SIM card inserted.
      - chaostheory 5y ago
        Do you use a smartphone?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
Wiseacre 5y ago
Wait until the cars are required to drive you to the police station when you are accused of a crime....

test6554 5y ago

Ramming into protesters vehicle package should be selected at time of purchase and will cost an extra $74.99.

gonzoflip 5y ago
Hmmm, I feel like this reply is making light of other's deaths. I was more talking about the ability to attend a protest. I believe in personal freedom, as well as personal responsibility.
- beervirus 5y ago
  - gonzoflip 5y ago
    I don't really understand the connection to some sort of hypothetical situation about protesting in the street. My position is that I want my vehicle to start when I turn the key, and drive to where I take it. I think people are giving up a lot more freedom than what they are actually thinking about when they buy these cars that are able to be remotely controlled or disabled.
  - malfist 5y ago
    Are you seriously suggesting that protesting is an execution worthy offense?
    - xanaxagoras 5y ago
      If you're protesting in the middle of the street for the express purpose of disrupting traffic, you get what you get.
      - throwaway2048 5y ago
        So in other words, you believe that people protesting in the street deserve to die.
        beervirus 5y ago
        “Deserve” is maybe a little too normative. Certainly they shouldn’t act all surprised pikachu when it happens though.
      - malfist 5y ago
        You could have more empathy for your fellow humans.
    - beervirus 5y ago
      Not at all. But getting run over is certainly the reasonably foreseeable consequence of your actions. It’s not victim-blaming to suggest that people are ultimately responsible for their own safety, and they ought to take precautions.

dangus 5y ago

I don't think this is quite that extreme of a slippery slope. For one, areas of unrest are already restricted by physical police and national guard barriers. For example, during the unrest in 2020, Chicago physically raised its drawbridges. Anyone who really wants to get somewhere difficult would probably choose a bicycle or legs, so you need physical police barriers in that case. Refusing to drive you to the gun store sounds kind of silly when the government would more easily just ban gun stores (the right to bear arms doesn't include the right to buy them at a retail store). I realize you're just giving out an example but it was not a great one. Preventing you from driving somewhere is a simple as putting up a gate and closing it. Also, driving at all is not a right. It's a licensed privilege that can be taken away if you break traffic laws or drive while intoxicated. I think your perspective is coming from a car-focused area of the country (which is most of them). But, someone in NYC or Chicago might point out to you that they use a transit card that has the ability to track their movements through stations, and that they mainly travel by buses and trains that have government-owned surveillance cameras all over them. Despite this, it has has failed to turn into any kind of dystopian urban nightmare. What I'm getting at is that the technology is blamed for things that are actually just public policy, laws, and law enforcement. The privacy implications for using a smartphone in the Western world are a lot different than in China, even though the technology itself is identical. What we actually need is legislation surrounding automotive communication and centralized control and privacy. The rights that automobile owners have should be better enshrined in law rather than trusting auto manufacturers. This, I think, will eventually happen. We're still sorely lacking a general nationwide privacy law on the Internet in the US.

gonzoflip 5y ago
Nah, I will continue to buy disconnected vehicles for as long as possible since I chose to live in a rural area of the country, and I expect my machine to start when I tell it to. People that live in Chicago or New York choose to give up their ability to travel without the need for the government that is their choice. And didn't the pandemic have a major impact on some public transit lines operation? Again I believe in personal responsibility and freedom, I choose not to have that level of reliance on others. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/nyregion/mass-transit-service-cuts-covid.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/nyregion/mass-transit-ser... And while driving on public roads is not a right, I still want my vehicle to start regardless of the governments opinions on whether I should be traveling :) I chose guns because it was something that large corps like to virtue signal about. Also, while the bill of rights does not protect buying guns at retail, most of the cries for increased gun control actually want people to be forced to buy firearms in a retail setting so that the transfer can be tracked in the nation DB, which does not happen with private sales. Also, multiple cities literally shut down transit during the protests last year due to "safety". https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/article/21140422/protests-impact-transit-service-in-several-us-cities https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/article/21140...

chaostheory 5y ago

GM cars have phoned home for well over a decade now. Self driving features tend to also be extra optional features that cost more.

gonzoflip 5y ago
So what? People can choose to have connected vehicles if they want. I choose to avoid them and the newest gm vehicle I have owned was a 1997 Saturn. My personal choices and decisions are a product of my values and beliefs, and I intend on avoiding the potential for remote intervention as long as possible.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  My point is that none of this new or novel. Avoiding it is also near impossible unless you make restrictive life choices.
  - gonzoflip 5y ago
    Impossible is a massive exaggeration, I have not had an issue with it without even trying. Heck I am shopping brand new 911s right now, and they are not connected unless they have a SIM card inserted.
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      Do you use a smartphone?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

Wiseacre 5y ago

Wait until the cars are required to drive you to the police station when you are accused of a crime....