4 ms·

> the factors that lead to different immune system responses are very difficult to figure out despite many decades of research into the mechanisms. I totally

by podgaj 5y ago

> the factors that lead to different immune system responses are very difficult to figure out despite many decades of research into the mechanisms. I totally disagree with this. It is not difficult, they are ignoring it. Zinc deficiency is a well known risk for immunological dysfunction, yet where is all the zinc testing and research during this pandemic? https://www.nature.com/articles/1601479 https://www.nature.com/articles/1601479 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.nutr.24.012003.132454 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.nutr.2... And Why is all this not front page news? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214540021001420 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221454002... https://sljch.sljol.info/articles/abstract/10.4038/sljch.v50i4.9852/ https://sljch.sljol.info/articles/abstract/10.4038/sljch.v50... https://wjpr.s3.ap-south-1.amazonaws.com/article_issue/800cc2db1c7b4f8227949f8847486e64.pdf https://wjpr.s3.ap-south-1.amazonaws.com/article_issue/800cc... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/zinc-deficiency-as-a-possible-risk-factor-for-increased-susceptibility-and-severe-progression-of-covid19/B0292641A1388E2F55EC590287A21774 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...

simonh 5y ago
The correlation, if it exists, is marginal and there's even some reason to suspect there's a slight negative correlation. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.699389/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.6993... I have an aunt who's adamantly ant-vax. She goes on and on about how we should all be 'boosting our immune systems' to naturally protect us against the virus. The fact is there's no such thing as boosting a naturally healthy immune system. You can mitigate deficiencies to strengthen a compromised immune system, yes, but load up excessively on supplements and such and you can quickly end up suffering from toxicities to no measurable advantage. Nutrition is best left to being managed by doctors and nutritionists using the established health service mechanisms for that discipline (well, here in the UK anyway). Nutrition may well play an important role for individuals based on their specific needs, but it's just not at all appropriate to push it as a mitigation at a population level. For the vast majority of people it's either a complete distraction or could even do more harm than good. People need specific guidance based on their health circumstances - if there even are any significant benefits at all which isn't even entirely clear.
- podgaj 5y ago
  That study did not measure anyone's zinc status, it just assumed people were not zinc deficient based on the food supply. "The estimate was based on the food balance sheets, the bioavailability of Zn in the food supply, the estimated physiological requirement of Zn in individuals, population demographics, and stunting observed in children." I am not pushing it as a population level mitigation. But what if 50% of people could avoid covid if they fixed their zinc deficiency? And you even admit "Nutrition may well play an important role for individuals based on their specific needs". So why are they not letting people get tested for nutritional deficiencies? What wold that even hurt? And I agree that your aunt is an idiot and knows nothing about nutritional genomics.
  - simonh 5y ago
    >But what if 50% of people could avoid covid if they fixed their zinc deficiency? That's a truly absurd exaggeration. We're talking about a marginal effect on at best a marginal proportion of the population. >So why are they not letting people get tested for nutritional deficiencies? "they' (whoever "they" may be) are preventing people from getting tested for mineral deficiencies? Really? How are 'they' doing this? I'm in the UK so if you're in the US maybe there's a different process, but if you're worried about your Zinc levels can't you just talk to your doctor?
    - podgaj 5y ago
      >We're talking about a marginal effect on at best a marginal proportion of the population. You have no evidence for this statement because it is not being tested. When they test patients with severe covid they find a high level of zinc deficiency. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482607/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482607/ "The study data clearly show that a significant number of COVID-19 patients were zinc deficient. These zinc deficient patients developed more complications, and the deficiency was associated with a prolonged hospital stay and increased mortality." I do not see how you could deny the importance of that. Does that sound marginal? So why are they not testing EVERY every COVID patient for a zinc deficiency? >but if you're worried about your Zinc levels can't you just talk to your doctor? 1) You have to KNOW to ask and doctors SHOULD know this but they do not. 2) Doctors here will say it is useless even when you are chronically ill. 3) Most health insurance companies in the US will not reimburse for the test if they cannot give a medical reason. 4) If Fauci came out and said all doctors should test their patients for nutritional deficiencies Doctors it would help. But he never talks about it. So no, it is not easy.

by podgaj 5y ago

simonh 5y ago

The correlation, if it exists, is marginal and there's even some reason to suspect there's a slight negative correlation. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.699389/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.6993... I have an aunt who's adamantly ant-vax. She goes on and on about how we should all be 'boosting our immune systems' to naturally protect us against the virus. The fact is there's no such thing as boosting a naturally healthy immune system. You can mitigate deficiencies to strengthen a compromised immune system, yes, but load up excessively on supplements and such and you can quickly end up suffering from toxicities to no measurable advantage. Nutrition is best left to being managed by doctors and nutritionists using the established health service mechanisms for that discipline (well, here in the UK anyway). Nutrition may well play an important role for individuals based on their specific needs, but it's just not at all appropriate to push it as a mitigation at a population level. For the vast majority of people it's either a complete distraction or could even do more harm than good. People need specific guidance based on their health circumstances - if there even are any significant benefits at all which isn't even entirely clear.

podgaj 5y ago
That study did not measure anyone's zinc status, it just assumed people were not zinc deficient based on the food supply. "The estimate was based on the food balance sheets, the bioavailability of Zn in the food supply, the estimated physiological requirement of Zn in individuals, population demographics, and stunting observed in children." I am not pushing it as a population level mitigation. But what if 50% of people could avoid covid if they fixed their zinc deficiency? And you even admit "Nutrition may well play an important role for individuals based on their specific needs". So why are they not letting people get tested for nutritional deficiencies? What wold that even hurt? And I agree that your aunt is an idiot and knows nothing about nutritional genomics.
- simonh 5y ago
  >But what if 50% of people could avoid covid if they fixed their zinc deficiency? That's a truly absurd exaggeration. We're talking about a marginal effect on at best a marginal proportion of the population. >So why are they not letting people get tested for nutritional deficiencies? "they' (whoever "they" may be) are preventing people from getting tested for mineral deficiencies? Really? How are 'they' doing this? I'm in the UK so if you're in the US maybe there's a different process, but if you're worried about your Zinc levels can't you just talk to your doctor?
  - podgaj 5y ago
    >We're talking about a marginal effect on at best a marginal proportion of the population. You have no evidence for this statement because it is not being tested. When they test patients with severe covid they find a high level of zinc deficiency. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482607/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7482607/ "The study data clearly show that a significant number of COVID-19 patients were zinc deficient. These zinc deficient patients developed more complications, and the deficiency was associated with a prolonged hospital stay and increased mortality." I do not see how you could deny the importance of that. Does that sound marginal? So why are they not testing EVERY every COVID patient for a zinc deficiency? >but if you're worried about your Zinc levels can't you just talk to your doctor? 1) You have to KNOW to ask and doctors SHOULD know this but they do not. 2) Doctors here will say it is useless even when you are chronically ill. 3) Most health insurance companies in the US will not reimburse for the test if they cannot give a medical reason. 4) If Fauci came out and said all doctors should test their patients for nutritional deficiencies Doctors it would help. But he never talks about it. So no, it is not easy.