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I agree that there is a widespread feeling that legal protections are missing reality (wirklichkeitsfremd). But I'd argue that the roots of Germany's focus on

I agree that there is a widespread feeling that legal protections are missing reality (wirklichkeitsfremd). But I'd argue that the roots of Germany's focus on privacy are not only rooted in protection against the state. Yes, constitutional fundamental rights are protections against the state (Abwehrrechte), but the legal interpretation established by the supreme court also draws on an ideal-typical perception of citizens as informed, rational and responsible people (mündige Bürger), who - through education, intelligence, moral values, dedication and pro-social behavior - create and sustain society. Such self-determined citizens cannot exist in the face of overbearing, and especially invisible or intractable (!) external coercion. That's also the root of informed consent, of course. So in this sense, privacy protections are a safeguard against dumbing down citizens, and I think the general intent is indeed valid.

tomxor 5y ago
> perception of citizens as informed, rational and responsible people (mündige Bürger), who - through education, intelligence, moral values, dedication and pro-social behavior - create and sustain society. [...] Such self-determined citizens cannot exist in the face of overbearing, and especially invisible or intractable (!) external coercion. That's excellent, it's these type of arguments that get too little attention when digital "privacy" gets discussed today.
mellavora 5y ago
In support of the ideal of citizens as informed, rational and responsible people (mündige Bürger). This is a foundational assumption of post-Hobbesian democracy, which asserts that power originates from the people and is delegated to the government (contrast to other political philosophies such as divine right of rule etc). so the consequence of 'dumbing down citizens' is a destruction of the legitimacy of the government. Just as if the king rules by divine right, he would be silly to promote atheism.

tomxor 5y ago

> perception of citizens as informed, rational and responsible people (mündige Bürger), who - through education, intelligence, moral values, dedication and pro-social behavior - create and sustain society. [...] Such self-determined citizens cannot exist in the face of overbearing, and especially invisible or intractable (!) external coercion. That's excellent, it's these type of arguments that get too little attention when digital "privacy" gets discussed today.

mellavora 5y ago

In support of the ideal of citizens as informed, rational and responsible people (mündige Bürger). This is a foundational assumption of post-Hobbesian democracy, which asserts that power originates from the people and is delegated to the government (contrast to other political philosophies such as divine right of rule etc). so the consequence of 'dumbing down citizens' is a destruction of the legitimacy of the government. Just as if the king rules by divine right, he would be silly to promote atheism.