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> Weird side-effect: homeless people might ask for your empty bottle and do the collection. Not sure how I feel about that though… It becomes a respectful coop

by oaiey 5y ago

> Weird side-effect: homeless people might ask for your empty bottle and do the collection. Not sure how I feel about that though… It becomes a respectful cooperation. When you party in a park, you place your containers next to a trash so a homeless can pick it up without searching the trash. They basically help you partying hard (and not caring/carrying about the bottles) and earn (by hard work) a bit of money.

runj__ 5y ago
I don't know about "respectful" for both parties. Bottle collectors trying to take/steal not yet empty bottles and cans has become more of a rule than an exception in parks in central Stockholm. I'm still very much in favour of container deposit but I'm growing really tired of forceful collecting.
- lillecarl 5y ago
  The people you're referring to are likely not the same kind of people who collect bottles in other countries. My friend has this jokish ticks screaming out "Min pant"(roughly translates into "my cans) when we're a bit drunk, referring to this exact problem. It's inappropriate to go into further detail than to say he's not making fun of any Swedes. It's one of the downsides of free movement within the EU when you're a country that's built on assuming most people will do right for themselves, the it breaks.
  - _0ffh 5y ago
    >"Min pant"(roughly translates into "my cans) Sounds more like "my deposit" to me.
    - lillecarl 5y ago
      Sure, I find it easier to translate English to Swedish than the other way around I guess. Though they are referring to your soon to be recycled cans and bottles when semi-agressively trying to steal them from you.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        It would be "my pawn", translated more literally. Some people find this amusing.
    - freeflight 5y ago
      Sounds like "Mein Pfand" to me.
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    I see such behavior here in Germany sometimes, too. Like everywhere else in life, there are nice bottle collectors, and there are assholes. One collector gave me a sticky, wet butt, because he snuck up behind us in a park, "stole" my half empty beer bottle I placed next to me, and then proceeded to empty it out right there. It was one of the very few times I had trouble controlling myself not to hit somebody... I managed to control myself in the end enough to avoid violence, but was still angry enough to call the cops on the guy. Cops told him to not show up in the park or surrounding parks for the rest of the day, and when they asked if I wanted to press charges (technically it was theft and damage of property), the collector waved a 20 Euro note for "cleaning costs", which I took instead. I felt that was punishment enough. Then again, there is plenty of bottle collectors who are rather polite, and humbly ask if you're done with the bottle and if they can have it. And a lot of people also gather together their empty bottles in a pile when they see a collector approaching.
    - lillecarl 5y ago
      I'm quite disappointed you didn't press charges to he honest, (s)he must've understood perfectly what (s)he was doing and the consequences, yet he still did it. And you're likely not the only person abused like that. Yes there are loads of nice appreciative collectors and they are doing us a service, it's just sad when the predators come and ruin it.
      - rndgermandude 5y ago
        My hope was that involving the cops was scary enough (they took down the details of that person, and issued a formal order to vacate), and that the immediate monetary "punishment" in form of those 20 bucks (which is a lot of bottles) helped too. I felt it was a reasonable severe response to what happened. Causing that guy a lot of legal trouble, aside from clogging up the legal system with not even 20 bucks worth of damages, seemed unreasonable. Those cops are also regularly working that area (they in fact were already in the park when I called, and I had seen them before doing their rounds), and if that bottle collector violated their order to vacate, it would have had actual consequences. And if he pulls the same shit again, the cops will have a "you again moment", and probably mention that to the next person who makes a complaint and at the very least issue a much longer order to vacate. And since they didn't mention anything to me, I am assuming it was the first time the cops were called on that guy, and we Germans have a tendency to call the cops quite often ;) It also saved me from a lot of hassle myself, of course, not having to go to the police to give a signed statement, maybe show up in court, etc.
- strajk 5y ago
  How much is a deposit compared to the full price of a drink? Here in Czechia it's 3czk deposit for ~20czk full drink price and I've never noticed anybody even asking for the bottles, yet alone "stealing" them.
  - msh 5y ago
    In DK it goes up to 3 DKR for a 1,5 liters bottle of soda that you might pay 15-25 dkr for.
    - freeflight 5y ago
      All these deposits are so low. Germany has 25 cent on non-beer plastic bottles. Which means when buying a 1,5 liters bottle of water, the bottle is worth more (25 cent) than the water in it (19 cent). Bottle collectors are quite common, haven't met any rude ones myself, but they are even speed-collecting trough the trash cans of trains stopped making stops at the station.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        The prices are in Danish crowns, and aren't that far away from the German ones, although some consideration should be made for the higher cost of living here. Glass bottles, normal cans: 1kr = 13¢ Small plastic bottles: 1.5kr = 20¢ Large plastic bottles (≥ 1L): 3kr = 40¢ https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-deposits/deposit-marks-and-amounts/ https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-deposits/deposit-marks-...
VBprogrammer 5y ago
I remember asking a German friend why people were leaving the bottles on top of the bins when we went to a football match. Growing up in Scotland collecting Irn Bru bottles was something you could do for "sweetie" money. I was disappointed the last time I looked to find out that they have now decommissioned their bottle cleaning plant. Apparently conventional recycling has resulted in the rate of return being too low.
- adam-a 5y ago
  They are planning to bring it back in Scotland, as a more univeral scheme like the GP descirbes in Norway. The timeline keeps getting pushed back due to lobbying from the drinks industry though: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/scotland-delays-bottle-can-deposit-return-scheme-intense-industry-lobbying https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/scotland-del...
berkes 5y ago
In Germany -at least the cities I'm familiar with- everyone places their cans and bottles next to the trash-can. German bottles often have "pfand gehört daneben" (Deposits belong next to it) printed on them[0]. And some cities even placed special holders alongside the trashcans[1]. Like with many things, Germans have made deposit collection into an efficient job. [0] https://kaiserkiwi.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fritz-kola-Pfand-geh%C3%B6rt-daneben.jpg https://kaiserkiwi.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fritz-kola-... [1] https://www.linksfraktion-hannover.de/fileadmin/fraktionhannover/user/upload/Pfandsammelring_Pfand_gehoert_daneben.jpg https://www.linksfraktion-hannover.de/fileadmin/fraktionhann...
- carlmr 5y ago
  The only issue is that glass bottles are too cheap and heavy. They should at least have a 25 cent deposit as well. Right now no homeless person picks those up, because it's just not worth it. Even with 25 cents there would still be a disincentive due to the weight, but I also don't want to incentivize bottle makers to produce more plastic, for them to lower the price at the counter.
  - tobltobs 5y ago
    It is 25 cent for glas, plastic bottles or cans in Germany.
    - _0ffh 5y ago
      Nope, glass bottles are just 8 cents.
      - z02d 5y ago
        Glass bottles are 8 cents, if they are re-use. Re-use glass bottles with a clip closure are 15 cent (and there are still some other kind of bottles with 15 cent). If they are only single use, they are 25 cents (e.g. beer from Lidl).
    - rndgermandude 5y ago
qw 5y ago
i have seen some trash cans in Oslo with a separate cylinder for bottles that gives easy access to the bottles. I hope this becomes more popular, so that they don't have to dig through the trash cans.
newsclues 5y ago
It can become a disrespectful cooperation as well. I’ve had people rummage through recycling bin for cans and leaving a mess, I’ve seen fights over who gets to collect cans, and I’ve seen trespassing to collect cans from people’s private porches. When collecting cans goes from a lucrative hobby to a business, problems arise.

by oaiey 5y ago

runj__ 5y ago

I don't know about "respectful" for both parties. Bottle collectors trying to take/steal not yet empty bottles and cans has become more of a rule than an exception in parks in central Stockholm. I'm still very much in favour of container deposit but I'm growing really tired of forceful collecting.

lillecarl 5y ago
The people you're referring to are likely not the same kind of people who collect bottles in other countries. My friend has this jokish ticks screaming out "Min pant"(roughly translates into "my cans) when we're a bit drunk, referring to this exact problem. It's inappropriate to go into further detail than to say he's not making fun of any Swedes. It's one of the downsides of free movement within the EU when you're a country that's built on assuming most people will do right for themselves, the it breaks.
- _0ffh 5y ago
  >"Min pant"(roughly translates into "my cans) Sounds more like "my deposit" to me.
  - lillecarl 5y ago
    Sure, I find it easier to translate English to Swedish than the other way around I guess. Though they are referring to your soon to be recycled cans and bottles when semi-agressively trying to steal them from you.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      It would be "my pawn", translated more literally. Some people find this amusing.
  - freeflight 5y ago
    Sounds like "Mein Pfand" to me.
- rndgermandude 5y ago
  I see such behavior here in Germany sometimes, too. Like everywhere else in life, there are nice bottle collectors, and there are assholes. One collector gave me a sticky, wet butt, because he snuck up behind us in a park, "stole" my half empty beer bottle I placed next to me, and then proceeded to empty it out right there. It was one of the very few times I had trouble controlling myself not to hit somebody... I managed to control myself in the end enough to avoid violence, but was still angry enough to call the cops on the guy. Cops told him to not show up in the park or surrounding parks for the rest of the day, and when they asked if I wanted to press charges (technically it was theft and damage of property), the collector waved a 20 Euro note for "cleaning costs", which I took instead. I felt that was punishment enough. Then again, there is plenty of bottle collectors who are rather polite, and humbly ask if you're done with the bottle and if they can have it. And a lot of people also gather together their empty bottles in a pile when they see a collector approaching.
  - lillecarl 5y ago
    I'm quite disappointed you didn't press charges to he honest, (s)he must've understood perfectly what (s)he was doing and the consequences, yet he still did it. And you're likely not the only person abused like that. Yes there are loads of nice appreciative collectors and they are doing us a service, it's just sad when the predators come and ruin it.
    - rndgermandude 5y ago
      My hope was that involving the cops was scary enough (they took down the details of that person, and issued a formal order to vacate), and that the immediate monetary "punishment" in form of those 20 bucks (which is a lot of bottles) helped too. I felt it was a reasonable severe response to what happened. Causing that guy a lot of legal trouble, aside from clogging up the legal system with not even 20 bucks worth of damages, seemed unreasonable. Those cops are also regularly working that area (they in fact were already in the park when I called, and I had seen them before doing their rounds), and if that bottle collector violated their order to vacate, it would have had actual consequences. And if he pulls the same shit again, the cops will have a "you again moment", and probably mention that to the next person who makes a complaint and at the very least issue a much longer order to vacate. And since they didn't mention anything to me, I am assuming it was the first time the cops were called on that guy, and we Germans have a tendency to call the cops quite often ;) It also saved me from a lot of hassle myself, of course, not having to go to the police to give a signed statement, maybe show up in court, etc.
strajk 5y ago
How much is a deposit compared to the full price of a drink? Here in Czechia it's 3czk deposit for ~20czk full drink price and I've never noticed anybody even asking for the bottles, yet alone "stealing" them.
- msh 5y ago
  In DK it goes up to 3 DKR for a 1,5 liters bottle of soda that you might pay 15-25 dkr for.
  - freeflight 5y ago
    All these deposits are so low. Germany has 25 cent on non-beer plastic bottles. Which means when buying a 1,5 liters bottle of water, the bottle is worth more (25 cent) than the water in it (19 cent). Bottle collectors are quite common, haven't met any rude ones myself, but they are even speed-collecting trough the trash cans of trains stopped making stops at the station.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      The prices are in Danish crowns, and aren't that far away from the German ones, although some consideration should be made for the higher cost of living here. Glass bottles, normal cans: 1kr = 13¢ Small plastic bottles: 1.5kr = 20¢ Large plastic bottles (≥ 1L): 3kr = 40¢ https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-deposits/deposit-marks-and-amounts/ https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-deposits/deposit-marks-...

VBprogrammer 5y ago

I remember asking a German friend why people were leaving the bottles on top of the bins when we went to a football match. Growing up in Scotland collecting Irn Bru bottles was something you could do for "sweetie" money. I was disappointed the last time I looked to find out that they have now decommissioned their bottle cleaning plant. Apparently conventional recycling has resulted in the rate of return being too low.

adam-a 5y ago
They are planning to bring it back in Scotland, as a more univeral scheme like the GP descirbes in Norway. The timeline keeps getting pushed back due to lobbying from the drinks industry though: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/scotland-delays-bottle-can-deposit-return-scheme-intense-industry-lobbying https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/scotland-del...

berkes 5y ago

In Germany -at least the cities I'm familiar with- everyone places their cans and bottles next to the trash-can. German bottles often have "pfand gehört daneben" (Deposits belong next to it) printed on them[0]. And some cities even placed special holders alongside the trashcans[1]. Like with many things, Germans have made deposit collection into an efficient job. [0] https://kaiserkiwi.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fritz-kola-Pfand-geh%C3%B6rt-daneben.jpg https://kaiserkiwi.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fritz-kola-... [1] https://www.linksfraktion-hannover.de/fileadmin/fraktionhannover/user/upload/Pfandsammelring_Pfand_gehoert_daneben.jpg https://www.linksfraktion-hannover.de/fileadmin/fraktionhann...

carlmr 5y ago
The only issue is that glass bottles are too cheap and heavy. They should at least have a 25 cent deposit as well. Right now no homeless person picks those up, because it's just not worth it. Even with 25 cents there would still be a disincentive due to the weight, but I also don't want to incentivize bottle makers to produce more plastic, for them to lower the price at the counter.
- tobltobs 5y ago
  It is 25 cent for glas, plastic bottles or cans in Germany.
  - _0ffh 5y ago
    Nope, glass bottles are just 8 cents.
    - z02d 5y ago
      Glass bottles are 8 cents, if they are re-use. Re-use glass bottles with a clip closure are 15 cent (and there are still some other kind of bottles with 15 cent). If they are only single use, they are 25 cents (e.g. beer from Lidl).
  - rndgermandude 5y ago

qw 5y ago

i have seen some trash cans in Oslo with a separate cylinder for bottles that gives easy access to the bottles. I hope this becomes more popular, so that they don't have to dig through the trash cans.

newsclues 5y ago

It can become a disrespectful cooperation as well. I’ve had people rummage through recycling bin for cans and leaving a mess, I’ve seen fights over who gets to collect cans, and I’ve seen trespassing to collect cans from people’s private porches. When collecting cans goes from a lucrative hobby to a business, problems arise.