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> This virus won't just go away in a few months, we'll have to live with it, just like Humans have done with every other virus since forever. This statement me

> This virus won't just go away in a few months, we'll have to live with it, just like Humans have done with every other virus since forever. This statement mean different things to different people. Do we live with AIDS with or without condoms ? Do we live with Covid with or without masks and vaccines and other prophylactic measures ?

throwaway599281 5y ago
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  I am not making myself clear enough: some use the statement "we have to live with covid" to mean "let covid cull the weak and the old, people die all the time anyway, vaccines and masks are only needed for the weak and the old so we shouldn't make them mandatory" and others to mean "covid is here to stay so are vaccines, masking and ventilation, etc.". > Have we ever imposed measures that limit the freedom of movement of the entire population, or subsects of it that have a higher infection rates per capita, such as drug users, prostitutes or homosexuals, as many countries have done? That's not the point. The point is that AIDS has changed some things that we haven't come back to yet. One of the most prominent one is condom usage. This change doesn't need to be proved/sanctified by laws to happen and yet it exists (but I'll add that some people have been sentenced to years in prison for not revealing their HIV/AIDS status when having sex with their partner). So: what does it mean to "live with covid" ?
  - b112 5y ago
    Masking does not prevent the spread of covid, for the result is not perfect. It does slow the spread, which is helpful to allow vaccine development, and reduce hospitals strain. Current vaccines do not stop the spread of covid. Thus, eventually, everyone will have had covid, and all its variants. We're pretty much there, I'd think. So that said, eventually masks and social distancing will lose relevance, as case numbers will drop, and the real goal of masks and social distancing, reducing hospital overloads, will go away.
    - zibzab 5y ago
      > Current vaccines do not stop the spread of covid No, not to the extent we first hoped. But it does help you survive covid, which was our goal all along.
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      > So that said, eventually masks and social distancing will lose relevance, as case numbers will drop, and the real goal of masks and social distancing, reducing hospital overloads, will go away. I think it'd be interesting to wait and see if keeping those measures in place , even if covid threats magically disappeared overnight, would reduce other infections (common cold, flu, etc.).
      - BoxOfRain 5y ago
        > I think it'd be interesting to wait and see if keeping those measures in place , even if covid threats magically disappeared overnight, would reduce other infections (common cold, flu, etc.). That’s a hard no from me, we can’t keep moving the goalposts for giving things like mask mandates and social distancing the boot. Three million plastic masks get thrown away every minute, each of which takes centuries to degrade and potentially introduces micro-plastic pollution into the food chain. I’m not going to contribute to this environmental catastrophe a second more than the law requires me to. Keep masks and distancing on a personal basis for those who want them, but the mandates must end the instant it’s possible for them to. COVID culture does enormous collateral damage to the environment and to many industries, we can’t keep it enforced by law on the basis of ‘perhaps’, ‘maybe’, or ‘the common cold’.
      - sieabahlpark 5y ago
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      Reinfection does happen. How many times do you want to play covid roulette ?
  - throwaway599281 5y ago
    >So: what does it mean to "live with covid" ? Live exactly as we lived before March 2019, with the small exceptions of using mask in gatherings or closed spaces, voluntary vaccination, specially to people with comorbidities. Other than that, just not being bombarded with covid stats every single minute would be a huge improvement for the mental well-being of the population.
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      > > So: what does it mean to "live with covid" ? > Live exactly as we lived before March 2019, with the small exceptions of using mask in gatherings or closed spaces, voluntary vaccination, specially to people with comorbidities. For what it's worth and to let my opinion be clear: I don't think that's yet possible :/. > Other than that, just not being bombarded with covid stats every single minute would be a huge improvement for the mental well-being of the population. I do agree the media and the politics relying on the media "to inform the people" are fucking things up in a way I couldn't believe they could. There's almost 0 actionable or relevant information in what they broadcast 24/7.
    - Zanfa 5y ago
      What do you do with ICUs running out of capacity though? Disallow admitting non-vaccinated people and let them die at home?
      - sieabahlpark 5y ago
tasogare 5y ago
- mike00632 5y ago
  The opposite is true. Way more people die from COVID than AIDS, not to mention the large number of people who become permanently disabled from COVID.
bagacrap 5y ago
are you suggesting we keep wearing masks in public forever? Surely someone takes this stance but it sounds ludicrous to me. (Although I wouldn't mind normalizing it for people who are feeling under the weather but still must travel, say.)
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  Maybe there should be mandatory when numbers are too high or maybe we should try to educate people to wear a mask when sick. Like it seems they do it in Asia. I am glad we have FFP2/n95 options.

throwaway599281 5y ago

johnchristopher 5y ago
I am not making myself clear enough: some use the statement "we have to live with covid" to mean "let covid cull the weak and the old, people die all the time anyway, vaccines and masks are only needed for the weak and the old so we shouldn't make them mandatory" and others to mean "covid is here to stay so are vaccines, masking and ventilation, etc.". > Have we ever imposed measures that limit the freedom of movement of the entire population, or subsects of it that have a higher infection rates per capita, such as drug users, prostitutes or homosexuals, as many countries have done? That's not the point. The point is that AIDS has changed some things that we haven't come back to yet. One of the most prominent one is condom usage. This change doesn't need to be proved/sanctified by laws to happen and yet it exists (but I'll add that some people have been sentenced to years in prison for not revealing their HIV/AIDS status when having sex with their partner). So: what does it mean to "live with covid" ?
- b112 5y ago
  Masking does not prevent the spread of covid, for the result is not perfect. It does slow the spread, which is helpful to allow vaccine development, and reduce hospitals strain. Current vaccines do not stop the spread of covid. Thus, eventually, everyone will have had covid, and all its variants. We're pretty much there, I'd think. So that said, eventually masks and social distancing will lose relevance, as case numbers will drop, and the real goal of masks and social distancing, reducing hospital overloads, will go away.
  - zibzab 5y ago
    > Current vaccines do not stop the spread of covid No, not to the extent we first hoped. But it does help you survive covid, which was our goal all along.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    > So that said, eventually masks and social distancing will lose relevance, as case numbers will drop, and the real goal of masks and social distancing, reducing hospital overloads, will go away. I think it'd be interesting to wait and see if keeping those measures in place , even if covid threats magically disappeared overnight, would reduce other infections (common cold, flu, etc.).
    - BoxOfRain 5y ago
      > I think it'd be interesting to wait and see if keeping those measures in place , even if covid threats magically disappeared overnight, would reduce other infections (common cold, flu, etc.). That’s a hard no from me, we can’t keep moving the goalposts for giving things like mask mandates and social distancing the boot. Three million plastic masks get thrown away every minute, each of which takes centuries to degrade and potentially introduces micro-plastic pollution into the food chain. I’m not going to contribute to this environmental catastrophe a second more than the law requires me to. Keep masks and distancing on a personal basis for those who want them, but the mandates must end the instant it’s possible for them to. COVID culture does enormous collateral damage to the environment and to many industries, we can’t keep it enforced by law on the basis of ‘perhaps’, ‘maybe’, or ‘the common cold’.
    - sieabahlpark 5y ago
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    Reinfection does happen. How many times do you want to play covid roulette ?
- throwaway599281 5y ago
  >So: what does it mean to "live with covid" ? Live exactly as we lived before March 2019, with the small exceptions of using mask in gatherings or closed spaces, voluntary vaccination, specially to people with comorbidities. Other than that, just not being bombarded with covid stats every single minute would be a huge improvement for the mental well-being of the population.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    > > So: what does it mean to "live with covid" ? > Live exactly as we lived before March 2019, with the small exceptions of using mask in gatherings or closed spaces, voluntary vaccination, specially to people with comorbidities. For what it's worth and to let my opinion be clear: I don't think that's yet possible :/. > Other than that, just not being bombarded with covid stats every single minute would be a huge improvement for the mental well-being of the population. I do agree the media and the politics relying on the media "to inform the people" are fucking things up in a way I couldn't believe they could. There's almost 0 actionable or relevant information in what they broadcast 24/7.
  - Zanfa 5y ago
    What do you do with ICUs running out of capacity though? Disallow admitting non-vaccinated people and let them die at home?
    - sieabahlpark 5y ago

tasogare 5y ago

mike00632 5y ago
The opposite is true. Way more people die from COVID than AIDS, not to mention the large number of people who become permanently disabled from COVID.

bagacrap 5y ago

are you suggesting we keep wearing masks in public forever? Surely someone takes this stance but it sounds ludicrous to me. (Although I wouldn't mind normalizing it for people who are feeling under the weather but still must travel, say.)

johnchristopher 5y ago
Maybe there should be mandatory when numbers are too high or maybe we should try to educate people to wear a mask when sick. Like it seems they do it in Asia. I am glad we have FFP2/n95 options.