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For one, it would increase the attractiveness of fraud where the same bottle is sold in multiple jurisdictions with different deposit rates. Instead of collecti
by dmurray 5y ago
For one, it would increase the attractiveness of fraud where the same bottle is sold in multiple jurisdictions with different deposit rates. Instead of collecting trash across the border, buy cans there by the truckload, bring them back across state lines, empty them and redeem them for the "deposit" you never paid.
Of course, there are some plausible technological or political solutions to this. But it does change the economics.
- caslon 5y agoIsn't arbitrage like that just how markets are supposed to work? Still ends up with the cans redeemed and disposed, just goes about it in such a way that the maximum amount of value is extracted from them.
- dmurray 5y agoNo. This is almost the opposite of a market-based system. Aluminium cans are artificially made available only at tens or hundreds of times their cost to produce.
- mschuster91 5y ago> Aluminium cans are artificially made available only at tens or hundreds of times their cost to produce. You forgot externalized costs... add the cost of cleaning up after irresponsible people leaving behind their cans wherever they want or the added costs and pollution of making a can from fresh aluminium ore (bauxite), and suddenly that "ten or hundred times" becomes "at cost". Deposits are a regulatory way to account for externalized costs, at least to a bit.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoThe deposit has nothing to do with the dirtiness of mining. It's so that people like you don't see a can blowing in the wind. If it were about the mining the deposit would be on everything else made of aluminum too. Of all the things to let into the environment aluminum is one of the least worst. As with everything else, it's yet another story about how narratives, marketing, knee jerk reactions and bike shedding are the name of the game when it comes to public policy.
- mft_ 5y ago…which is easy enough to fix with bar codes. This is how it works in Germany. You pay a deposit on every bottle. To get your money back requires a machine to recognise each bottle/can as legitimate, based on the bar code. Now, yes, people could print stickers with fake bar codes on… but I don’t think that would work well at the scale of the major fraud operation you’re envisaging…
- eru 5y agoAnd the German system is a bit silly, too. The Einwegpfand was supposed (I guess?) to make Einwegflaschen go away and promote Mehrwegflaschen. As far as I can tell, retail outlets just got good at crushing Einwegflaschen. An investment in capability that benefitted basically no one.
- mschuster91 5y ago> An investment in capability that benefitted basically no one. There is a benefit: You rarely find plastic bottles and beer cans in the environment any more.
- lampe3 5y agoReally? I live in Hamburg, Germany. The amount of broken glass bottles is amazing... I lived in Hamburg for almost 30 years, but the city was never dirtier than it is right now.
- gambiting 5y agoI imagine the part of the problem is that once the bottle is broken, or the barcode is damaged, there is no incentive to return it anymore.
- csunbird 5y agoSame in Berlin, I had to replace my bike's tires more than once. Replying to sibling comment: The incentive is to not break the bottle, but return it instead.
- markdown 5y ago> it would increase the attractiveness of fraud where the same bottle is sold in multiple jurisdictions with different deposit rates. Doesn't matter which way you slice it, it doesn't pay. The exception is if you can ship it on Mothers's Day.