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Not following. If everything is predetermined, there are no actual probabilities except as an artifact lack of knowledge of what the outcome must be. If that

by raylad 5y ago

Not following. If everything is predetermined, there are no actual probabilities except as an artifact lack of knowledge of what the outcome must be. If that is the case, how can the probability amplitudes interfere with each other?

Koshkin 5y ago
Even as an artifact of a lack of knowledge, probabilities can do many things - correlate, interfere...
- raylad 5y ago
  I don't see how one's lack of knowledge can cause lines to form differently (different interference patterns). If anyone has any more insight into this, please do weigh in.
  - shellac 5y ago
    It's a good question. The interference pattern is a result of two things: 1) Quantum mechanics: the pilot wave or whatever you want to call it. 2) Incoming particles' positions having a broad statistical distribution. With a cunningly skewed / rigged distribution you wouldn't see fringes (e.g. suppose they all come in on the same trajectory). However such distributions are atypical.* But we talk about probability being a 'measure of ignorance' here because we don't know where these particles are exactly, but we know they must have gone through the initial slit, and QM says: in that case, here's the probability it will end up at this final destination. * This the same story as statistical mechanics. (Having said that we do have the issue there that our systems start in low entropy, or 'atypical', states. That's a whole other topic)
    - raylad 5y ago
      Right, in classical QM. But in superdeterminism unless I'm really misunderstanding, they are basically saying that there are no probabilities at all because everything is predictable given the initial conditions of the universe, if you knew the hidden variables. Any "probabilities" are just what one observes to happen, but they aren't doing anything any more, they are just the result of incomplete knowledge. If you knew the hidden variables, you would be able to predict everything exactly and there would be no probabilities as such. In that case, what is creating the interference pattern and why?

by raylad 5y ago

Koshkin 5y ago

Even as an artifact of a lack of knowledge, probabilities can do many things - correlate, interfere...

raylad 5y ago
I don't see how one's lack of knowledge can cause lines to form differently (different interference patterns). If anyone has any more insight into this, please do weigh in.
- shellac 5y ago
  It's a good question. The interference pattern is a result of two things: 1) Quantum mechanics: the pilot wave or whatever you want to call it. 2) Incoming particles' positions having a broad statistical distribution. With a cunningly skewed / rigged distribution you wouldn't see fringes (e.g. suppose they all come in on the same trajectory). However such distributions are atypical.* But we talk about probability being a 'measure of ignorance' here because we don't know where these particles are exactly, but we know they must have gone through the initial slit, and QM says: in that case, here's the probability it will end up at this final destination. * This the same story as statistical mechanics. (Having said that we do have the issue there that our systems start in low entropy, or 'atypical', states. That's a whole other topic)
  - raylad 5y ago
    Right, in classical QM. But in superdeterminism unless I'm really misunderstanding, they are basically saying that there are no probabilities at all because everything is predictable given the initial conditions of the universe, if you knew the hidden variables. Any "probabilities" are just what one observes to happen, but they aren't doing anything any more, they are just the result of incomplete knowledge. If you knew the hidden variables, you would be able to predict everything exactly and there would be no probabilities as such. In that case, what is creating the interference pattern and why?