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> ... who feels little attraction to the truth-claims of the world’s ancient religions, except insofar as they sometimes serve as prophylactics against newer an

> ... who feels little attraction to the truth-claims of the world’s ancient religions, except insofar as they sometimes serve as prophylactics against newer and now even more virulent religions? The intuition behind this is appealing (that a lack of religion invites a void that is filled by crazier things), but the current evidence seems to indicate that this is incorrect. Mainstream religions aren't a "prophylactic" against newer craziness like QAnon. In fact, the reality is the opposite. QAnon is most effective in converting people who already believe in Christianity. You could also look at partisanship. Countries with less religion aren't really any more partisan.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> The intuition behind this is appealing (that a lack of religion invites a void that is filled by crazier things), but the current evidence seems to indicate that this is incorrect. Mainstream religions aren't a "prophylactic" against newer craziness like QAnon. > In fact, the reality is the opposite. QAnon is most effective in converting people who already believe in Christianity. I don't think you're looking at the right things. If you'll permit an extended quote from another Scott: > In high school I took a sociology class, and the teacher talked about how modern society was atomized and there were no real community bonds and so on. And I thought this was dumb. I didn’t live in an atomized society! My family knew our next-door neighbors, and we’d even been over at their house once for dinner. There was a Community Center a few blocks away, and when I was a kid I would go there a couple of times a year for some kind of Neighborhood Art Night. Sometimes my mother volunteered at my school, and my dad was too busy to volunteer but probably would have if he could. We weren’t devoid of community at all. > And then three things happened. Number one, I read some good anthropology about primitive and medieval societies, which actually described pre-atomized life and the way that there was barely even an individual identity and the community determined everything you ever did. Number two, I spent a little time in an honest-to-goodness Third World village and saw a little of what life was like there. And number three, I got involved in some good subcultures – including Bay Area rationality – which were slightly but noticeably less atomized than the neighborhood where I grew up. I realized that I’d mistaken the existent-but-weak forms of community in my suburban neighborhood for the really-strong forms of community that people complaining about atomization say we’re missing, because I had so little experience with the latter I couldn’t even imagine them. ( https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/11/07/concept-shaped-holes-can-be-impossible-to-notice/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/11/07/concept-shaped-holes-c... ) You're looking at the void that people are trying to fill with newer, more satisfying religions, calling that void "mainstream religion", and then saying that mainstream religion doesn't block the adoption of newer more virulent religions. But mainstream religion in the United States died a long time ago. The people you're "disagreeing" with are looking at the same void, calling it a void, and complaining that there's nothing there to block the adoption of maladaptive beliefs. Which is the same complaint that you're making.
selfhoster11 5y ago
It's not hard to see that QAnon worldview contradicts a Bible-based worldview. For any well-rooted Christians, who have spent some time looking into their own faith's claims and reading the Bible, it should be blindingly obvious that there's something very suspicious about QAnon - if not that it's outright incompatible with Christianity. Unfortunately, there is still plenty of "casual" Christians who don't care, and people who are Christians in name only. They get snared fairly easily. IMO, a well-rooted Christian will essentially resist having their faith changed or added to. But they are the minority group in many places, because it's a path that requires personal sacrifice that not many want to undergo.
umvi 5y ago
Is QAnon really a "religion" or just a group of like minded conspiracy theorists like flat earthers? I was more thinking of "wokeism" as a religion that fills the religious void since it has its own moral code and dogmas unlike QAnon.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> The intuition behind this is appealing (that a lack of religion invites a void that is filled by crazier things), but the current evidence seems to indicate that this is incorrect. Mainstream religions aren't a "prophylactic" against newer craziness like QAnon. > In fact, the reality is the opposite. QAnon is most effective in converting people who already believe in Christianity. I don't think you're looking at the right things. If you'll permit an extended quote from another Scott: > In high school I took a sociology class, and the teacher talked about how modern society was atomized and there were no real community bonds and so on. And I thought this was dumb. I didn’t live in an atomized society! My family knew our next-door neighbors, and we’d even been over at their house once for dinner. There was a Community Center a few blocks away, and when I was a kid I would go there a couple of times a year for some kind of Neighborhood Art Night. Sometimes my mother volunteered at my school, and my dad was too busy to volunteer but probably would have if he could. We weren’t devoid of community at all. > And then three things happened. Number one, I read some good anthropology about primitive and medieval societies, which actually described pre-atomized life and the way that there was barely even an individual identity and the community determined everything you ever did. Number two, I spent a little time in an honest-to-goodness Third World village and saw a little of what life was like there. And number three, I got involved in some good subcultures – including Bay Area rationality – which were slightly but noticeably less atomized than the neighborhood where I grew up. I realized that I’d mistaken the existent-but-weak forms of community in my suburban neighborhood for the really-strong forms of community that people complaining about atomization say we’re missing, because I had so little experience with the latter I couldn’t even imagine them. ( https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/11/07/concept-shaped-holes-can-be-impossible-to-notice/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/11/07/concept-shaped-holes-c... ) You're looking at the void that people are trying to fill with newer, more satisfying religions, calling that void "mainstream religion", and then saying that mainstream religion doesn't block the adoption of newer more virulent religions. But mainstream religion in the United States died a long time ago. The people you're "disagreeing" with are looking at the same void, calling it a void, and complaining that there's nothing there to block the adoption of maladaptive beliefs. Which is the same complaint that you're making.

selfhoster11 5y ago

It's not hard to see that QAnon worldview contradicts a Bible-based worldview. For any well-rooted Christians, who have spent some time looking into their own faith's claims and reading the Bible, it should be blindingly obvious that there's something very suspicious about QAnon - if not that it's outright incompatible with Christianity. Unfortunately, there is still plenty of "casual" Christians who don't care, and people who are Christians in name only. They get snared fairly easily. IMO, a well-rooted Christian will essentially resist having their faith changed or added to. But they are the minority group in many places, because it's a path that requires personal sacrifice that not many want to undergo.

umvi 5y ago

Is QAnon really a "religion" or just a group of like minded conspiracy theorists like flat earthers? I was more thinking of "wokeism" as a religion that fills the religious void since it has its own moral code and dogmas unlike QAnon.