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> This trend is also supported by Kubernetes as this is a technology which is hard to master. Maybe this is rich coming from a Kubernetes person, but sounds li

> This trend is also supported by Kubernetes as this is a technology which is hard to master. Maybe this is rich coming from a Kubernetes person, but sounds like the tide is turning against this viewpoint. Running Kubernetes itself is definitely hard to master, but you can take a <10 hour online course and be able to "helm install" your application. Kubernetes can be the new PaaS (if you have someone else running the control plane and maybe a monitoring stack). But there's not a PaaS on the planet where you can just skip the step where you learn about it. Even Heroku users eventually have to learn about how connection handling and limiting works, and the specific Heroku commands to upgrade your database.

dijit 5y ago
> but you can take a <10 hour online course and be able to "helm install" your application. Genuinely I believe that good QuickStarts are the cause of so many expert beginners. What I mean is: there is a person on an adjacent team who truly believes he is very competent in nearly all technologies. He is able to deploy a k3s cluster no problem. He is absolutely unable to debug that cluster, or use it in a way which is reliable (local persistent volumes means you are dependent on the node never going away), he is unable to troubleshoot networking issues that have occurred in that cluster and he has struggled many times to admit that it is unable. But heck. He can helm install no problem!
- anticristi 5y ago
  > What I mean is: there is a person on an adjacent team who truly believes he is very competent in nearly all technologies. He is able to deploy a k3s cluster no problem. Aren't you confusing two roles, Kubernetes application developer and Kubernetes administrator? The Kubernetes application developer should focus on their application, NodeJS, Java, DotNET, whatever. Helm install (actually helm update --install) is all they should know/care when it comes to Kubernetes. K3s deploy and local storage providers? Let those be the Kubernetes administrator's headaches.
midrus 5y ago
Are you comparing the cost of learning kubernetes to the cost of learning heroku? Or even AppEngine? Those are totally different leagues. Also, with heroku, AppEngine, etc you have tons of documentation (official and unofficial) and resources. It is well tested and the exact same service runs thousands of businesses. While kubernetes is like the react of the infrastructure world: you won't find two similar implementations. You need thousand tools configured around it to make it usable, and of course you might have docs about the individual pieces but you never have it for the big picture.

dijit 5y ago

> but you can take a <10 hour online course and be able to "helm install" your application. Genuinely I believe that good QuickStarts are the cause of so many expert beginners. What I mean is: there is a person on an adjacent team who truly believes he is very competent in nearly all technologies. He is able to deploy a k3s cluster no problem. He is absolutely unable to debug that cluster, or use it in a way which is reliable (local persistent volumes means you are dependent on the node never going away), he is unable to troubleshoot networking issues that have occurred in that cluster and he has struggled many times to admit that it is unable. But heck. He can helm install no problem!

anticristi 5y ago
> What I mean is: there is a person on an adjacent team who truly believes he is very competent in nearly all technologies. He is able to deploy a k3s cluster no problem. Aren't you confusing two roles, Kubernetes application developer and Kubernetes administrator? The Kubernetes application developer should focus on their application, NodeJS, Java, DotNET, whatever. Helm install (actually helm update --install) is all they should know/care when it comes to Kubernetes. K3s deploy and local storage providers? Let those be the Kubernetes administrator's headaches.

midrus 5y ago

Are you comparing the cost of learning kubernetes to the cost of learning heroku? Or even AppEngine? Those are totally different leagues. Also, with heroku, AppEngine, etc you have tons of documentation (official and unofficial) and resources. It is well tested and the exact same service runs thousands of businesses. While kubernetes is like the react of the infrastructure world: you won't find two similar implementations. You need thousand tools configured around it to make it usable, and of course you might have docs about the individual pieces but you never have it for the big picture.