3 ms·

Completely agree with all of the above, but there are also some structural problems to resolve, for example: 1) We've dumbed down public education to the point

Completely agree with all of the above, but there are also some structural problems to resolve, for example: 1) We've dumbed down public education to the point that college has become a near necessity just to function in society - or certainly to get a job in a society with over the top education requirements. 2) We would need to provide a "third way" where those skill paths that don't really belong in universities can be met. We'd need to further fix decades of telling our kids that they have to go to university and instead convince them that they will do just as well being welders and plumbers. 3) We'd need to accept as a society that there are worthwhile skill areas that just aren't profitable to higher education. For example, I'd argue society benefits from anthropologists and classicists, but if I'm being realistic I acknowledge that widely and cheaply available student loans make departments like these possible. So it brings up some uncomfortable truths about the society we want to be if loans are only available to those departments and future professions most likely to yield a profit - for the uni or the individual.

gruez 5y ago
>2) We would need to provide a "third way" where those skill paths that don't really belong in universities can be met. We'd need to further fix decades of telling our kids that they have to go to university and instead convince them that they will do just as well being welders and plumbers. but the third way already exists? ie. vocational schools, community colleges, and apprenticeships. it's just that they're not as prestigious as university, and people go with university because they want the best.
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  You are completely right, and I certainly thought about whether I should explicitly refer to these programs... I guess the crux of my issue is that employers still want to see people have a college degree + trade skills, and not just trade skills alone. Reasons being that they simply aren't getting enough educational foundation in high school anymore, plus it creates an overall better skilled / prepared individual. So if there is a way we can get people both practical skills AND at least a two year degree's worth of general ed, we're better off as a society.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >I guess the crux of my issue is that employers still want to see people have a college degree + trade skills, and not just trade skills alone. Is this actually true? ie. are they seriously looking for welders that know how to weld and have a college degree? I doubt that's the case. My impression is that all of the "you need a college degree even though it's not really needed" kind of jobs are entry level service jobs, or jobs that otherwise have a flood of applicants. College degree is used as a filter in those situations just to whittle down the huge applicant pool, not because the applicants "simply aren't getting enough educational foundation in high school anymore".

gruez 5y ago

>2) We would need to provide a "third way" where those skill paths that don't really belong in universities can be met. We'd need to further fix decades of telling our kids that they have to go to university and instead convince them that they will do just as well being welders and plumbers. but the third way already exists? ie. vocational schools, community colleges, and apprenticeships. it's just that they're not as prestigious as university, and people go with university because they want the best.

poulsbohemian 5y ago
You are completely right, and I certainly thought about whether I should explicitly refer to these programs... I guess the crux of my issue is that employers still want to see people have a college degree + trade skills, and not just trade skills alone. Reasons being that they simply aren't getting enough educational foundation in high school anymore, plus it creates an overall better skilled / prepared individual. So if there is a way we can get people both practical skills AND at least a two year degree's worth of general ed, we're better off as a society.
- gruez 5y ago
  >I guess the crux of my issue is that employers still want to see people have a college degree + trade skills, and not just trade skills alone. Is this actually true? ie. are they seriously looking for welders that know how to weld and have a college degree? I doubt that's the case. My impression is that all of the "you need a college degree even though it's not really needed" kind of jobs are entry level service jobs, or jobs that otherwise have a flood of applicants. College degree is used as a filter in those situations just to whittle down the huge applicant pool, not because the applicants "simply aren't getting enough educational foundation in high school anymore".