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> Protip: when someone's wiki page has a 'Controversies' tab it doesn't look good If wikipedia had existed in the time of Copernicus, Plato, Giordano Bruno, Ga

> Protip: when someone's wiki page has a 'Controversies' tab it doesn't look good If wikipedia had existed in the time of Copernicus, Plato, Giordano Bruno, Galileo or Darwin, I do not think they would be without their own large ‘controversies’ section ;)

culi 5y ago
- rayiner 5y ago
  He’s clearly not arguing that, but maybe you’re angry at him because some of his other points hit too close to home for you? > These include many people who I know personally, who are diversity loving progressives, but who seem to fall into the trap of disaggregation. Since I don't love diversity and don't care about that issue I don't bring it up with them often. But it's what I call a revealed preference. Or, to give an amusing example, I said something offensive in one of my posts apparently a few years back, which prompted one outraged reader to leave a long shocked rant about my racism. The comment was trashed, and the reader banned. Nevertheless, I traced their Facebook account. The individual was a young white professional resident in San Francisco. And, their friends list was visible. I did a quick spot check, and estimated that ~90 percent of their San Francisco friends were white. In contrast, about ~50 percent of San Francisco's population is white.
  - culi 5y ago
    yeah ok > And one last thing: I am sure no one who reads VDARE has watched any pornography of late, but if anyone would care to, they would find that the only class of women that rivals busty blondes in disproportionate numbers in American pornography is East Asian females. Unlike brunette European females, Asian females don't look particularly impressive when blonded in my opinion, and the fact that few Asian females in these films bleach their hair like their European counterparts seems to confirm that most porn viewers share my impression. In other words, Asian females (whether it be for cultural or biological reasons) are in some cases competitive with blondes. (From personal experience in a region of the country where there are many Eurasians- due to the fact that the area is 95%+ white and the non-white marriage pool somewhat limited - I can attest that many Eurasian men prefer Asian females for the same reasons as some European men do).
    - rayiner 5y ago
      Razib is really courting controversy by observing that men find blondes and East asian women particularly attractive.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        It's a bit of a weird look to try to rehabilitate an argument that is literally being made under the VDARE masthead. We don't so much have to dissect the spirit in which that kind of writing is made.
        rayiner 5y ago
        Razib is a bit of an edge lord, but I think he gets an unfair amount of flak for challenging white American notions of race and culture. I haven’t read that website, but I assume @Culi brought forth his best evidence, and there’s just nothing damning in the quoted material. East Asians think white people are thick and age poorly? Men find blondes and Asian women especially attractive? This isn’t even the top half of controversial things my Taiwanese and Chinese friends would say.
        tptacek 5y ago
        Debating the bona fides of someone writing in VDARE (and, apparently, Taki's Mag, too!) is a little like debating the bona fides of someone who gives speeches before a White Citizen's Council. Wait, no, it's exactly like that. There's a level of edgelordery past which you forfeit the presumption of good faith. I don't doubt your bona fides at all, but this person's good name is a bad hill to die on. I think we should decline to enter into debates framed by racists, and, weirdly, maybe even more avoidant of debates framed by ironic edgelord racists who may well just be trying to get people to have the dumbest possible debates so they can point and laugh. The rule of goats is dispositive here.
        rayiner 5y ago
        The difference is that Kahn is a brown guy in an interracial marriage, and is presumptively not a “racist.” His main fault seems to be having insufficiently assimilated into white American sensitivities regarding race and culture—treating these discussions as third rails where the appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety. And that’s all I’ve seen in the aspersions directed at him—guilt by association and the appearance of impropriety. That’s unfortunate because he’s quite an insightful commentator on racial and culture issues in America. I’m reminded of a comment you made the other day about different Asian groups not being equally advantaged in America, or something like that. That struck me as an extremely American framing—that’s not how the Chinese or Taiwanese immigrants I know would frame the issue of different outcomes between Asian groups!
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  > I don't think someone arguing that Africans shouldn't be classified as humans[0] Having read this interesting reference, I can only conclude that you either didn't actually read it, or that you're intentionally trying to mislead your fellow HNer in the hopes they don't actually read it.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  > [0] What a great post, thanks for linking it!

culi 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago
He’s clearly not arguing that, but maybe you’re angry at him because some of his other points hit too close to home for you? > These include many people who I know personally, who are diversity loving progressives, but who seem to fall into the trap of disaggregation. Since I don't love diversity and don't care about that issue I don't bring it up with them often. But it's what I call a revealed preference. Or, to give an amusing example, I said something offensive in one of my posts apparently a few years back, which prompted one outraged reader to leave a long shocked rant about my racism. The comment was trashed, and the reader banned. Nevertheless, I traced their Facebook account. The individual was a young white professional resident in San Francisco. And, their friends list was visible. I did a quick spot check, and estimated that ~90 percent of their San Francisco friends were white. In contrast, about ~50 percent of San Francisco's population is white.
- culi 5y ago
  yeah ok > And one last thing: I am sure no one who reads VDARE has watched any pornography of late, but if anyone would care to, they would find that the only class of women that rivals busty blondes in disproportionate numbers in American pornography is East Asian females. Unlike brunette European females, Asian females don't look particularly impressive when blonded in my opinion, and the fact that few Asian females in these films bleach their hair like their European counterparts seems to confirm that most porn viewers share my impression. In other words, Asian females (whether it be for cultural or biological reasons) are in some cases competitive with blondes. (From personal experience in a region of the country where there are many Eurasians- due to the fact that the area is 95%+ white and the non-white marriage pool somewhat limited - I can attest that many Eurasian men prefer Asian females for the same reasons as some European men do).
  - rayiner 5y ago
    Razib is really courting controversy by observing that men find blondes and East asian women particularly attractive.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      It's a bit of a weird look to try to rehabilitate an argument that is literally being made under the VDARE masthead. We don't so much have to dissect the spirit in which that kind of writing is made.
      - rayiner 5y ago
        Razib is a bit of an edge lord, but I think he gets an unfair amount of flak for challenging white American notions of race and culture. I haven’t read that website, but I assume @Culi brought forth his best evidence, and there’s just nothing damning in the quoted material. East Asians think white people are thick and age poorly? Men find blondes and Asian women especially attractive? This isn’t even the top half of controversial things my Taiwanese and Chinese friends would say.
        tptacek 5y ago
        Debating the bona fides of someone writing in VDARE (and, apparently, Taki's Mag, too!) is a little like debating the bona fides of someone who gives speeches before a White Citizen's Council. Wait, no, it's exactly like that. There's a level of edgelordery past which you forfeit the presumption of good faith. I don't doubt your bona fides at all, but this person's good name is a bad hill to die on. I think we should decline to enter into debates framed by racists, and, weirdly, maybe even more avoidant of debates framed by ironic edgelord racists who may well just be trying to get people to have the dumbest possible debates so they can point and laugh. The rule of goats is dispositive here.
        rayiner 5y ago
        The difference is that Kahn is a brown guy in an interracial marriage, and is presumptively not a “racist.” His main fault seems to be having insufficiently assimilated into white American sensitivities regarding race and culture—treating these discussions as third rails where the appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety. And that’s all I’ve seen in the aspersions directed at him—guilt by association and the appearance of impropriety. That’s unfortunate because he’s quite an insightful commentator on racial and culture issues in America. I’m reminded of a comment you made the other day about different Asian groups not being equally advantaged in America, or something like that. That struck me as an extremely American framing—that’s not how the Chinese or Taiwanese immigrants I know would frame the issue of different outcomes between Asian groups!
kspacewalk2 5y ago
> I don't think someone arguing that Africans shouldn't be classified as humans[0] Having read this interesting reference, I can only conclude that you either didn't actually read it, or that you're intentionally trying to mislead your fellow HNer in the hopes they don't actually read it.
xyzzyz 5y ago
> [0] What a great post, thanks for linking it!