6 ms·

> GTK's team is still fine (barely) Really? Isn't GTK where the CSD (client side decoration) is being forced onto every app, with no way to use native/normal

> GTK's team is still fine (barely) Really? Isn't GTK where the CSD (client side decoration) is being forced onto every app, with no way to use native/normal window manager borders? It seems rather widely despised: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16241923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16241923 https://old.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/lcj7cq/why_is_csd_bad/ https://old.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/lcj7cq/why_is_csd_bad...

phkahler 5y ago
Yeah, that goes against everything Wayland.
smoldesu 5y ago
That's more of a GNOME effort, if I'm being honest. It's a feature that's provided via GTK's libraries, but the whole "we're going to add CSD and you're not going to do anything about it" has been more of a GNOME sentiment[0]. [0] https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/01/26/csd-initiative/ https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/01/26/csd-initiative/
- shatteredgate 5y ago
  App developers will design their apps in a certain way and will add features that they think benefits the app. Some will add CSD if they think it's beneficial and others won't. What is it that you would want to do about that? That's always been how it is. If you were in charge of designing the app then you'd be the one going to meetings and writing the code.
stuaxo 5y ago
Maybe the people that don't mind, or like it keep more quiet. I prefer it, been a CSD user since before CSD itself, with Winamps rolled up UI.
- simion314 5y ago
  >I prefer it, been a CSD user since before CSD itself, with Winamps rolled up UI. That is it, but somehow you don't see it??? I mean is so obvious/// You could have Winamp or you could have an application with a window in the form of a circle but this days GNOME decided that you can ONLY have CSD and old apps that use SSD or non-GNOME apps that use SSD should switch to SSD... so you ahve 2 issues 1 GNOME is removing the option to have both SSD and CSD , and forces you into CSD only 2 GNOME does not provide(maybe things changed and someone forced those arrogant bastards to support some legacy app that RedHat needs) any support for SSD apps.
  - shatteredgate 5y ago
    I don't understand how you're having those issues. GNOME has never had the option to have both CSD and SSD. When GNOME apps used GTK2, SSD was the only option. When GNOME apps started moving towards GTK3, CSD became the only option. What you're asking for is a new feature because GNOME never supported both. Legacy apps using X11 will use the legacy X11 decorations. Those should still work. For Wayland apps, those were never working correctly if they didn't support CSD. What you're again asking for is a new feature, there are no legacy Wayland apps that will depend on that functionality because it never existed in GNOME Wayland.
    - simion314 5y ago
      > SSD was the only option. When GNOME apps started moving towards GTK3, CSD became the only option. What you're asking for is a new feature because GNOME never supported both. Really? , You should just hide the Window titlebar , and paint your own CSD, titlebars were not forced on you https://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-decorated https://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-wi... , this is how for example splashscreens are implemented or fancy non rectangular windows , but to be honest I am not 100% sure if GNOME2 was also an asshold and disabled this GTK feature just to be spacial, if you can confirm then let me know if I am right then you need to acknowledge the fact that SSD was not forced on you(not Qt,not GTK, not even Windows/OSX forced SSD on you )
      - 5y ago
shatteredgate 5y ago
>Isn't GTK where the CSD (client side decoration) is being forced onto every app No. GTK doesn't have any preference for decorations, you can use either one when writing GTK apps: https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/method.Window.set_decorated.html https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/method.Window.set_decorated.html The app developer gets to choose what decorations they support. Some app developers will choose to only support a certain type of decorations; that's an intentional design decision made as part of the app. In the past, GNOME app developers have chosen to use CSD and XFCE developers didn't, but there seems to be a shift from them towards CSD too. I've also seen some XFCE users saying they like the CSD.

phkahler 5y ago

Yeah, that goes against everything Wayland.

smoldesu 5y ago

That's more of a GNOME effort, if I'm being honest. It's a feature that's provided via GTK's libraries, but the whole "we're going to add CSD and you're not going to do anything about it" has been more of a GNOME sentiment[0]. [0] https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/01/26/csd-initiative/ https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/01/26/csd-initiative/

shatteredgate 5y ago
App developers will design their apps in a certain way and will add features that they think benefits the app. Some will add CSD if they think it's beneficial and others won't. What is it that you would want to do about that? That's always been how it is. If you were in charge of designing the app then you'd be the one going to meetings and writing the code.

stuaxo 5y ago

Maybe the people that don't mind, or like it keep more quiet. I prefer it, been a CSD user since before CSD itself, with Winamps rolled up UI.

simion314 5y ago
>I prefer it, been a CSD user since before CSD itself, with Winamps rolled up UI. That is it, but somehow you don't see it??? I mean is so obvious/// You could have Winamp or you could have an application with a window in the form of a circle but this days GNOME decided that you can ONLY have CSD and old apps that use SSD or non-GNOME apps that use SSD should switch to SSD... so you ahve 2 issues 1 GNOME is removing the option to have both SSD and CSD , and forces you into CSD only 2 GNOME does not provide(maybe things changed and someone forced those arrogant bastards to support some legacy app that RedHat needs) any support for SSD apps.
- shatteredgate 5y ago
  I don't understand how you're having those issues. GNOME has never had the option to have both CSD and SSD. When GNOME apps used GTK2, SSD was the only option. When GNOME apps started moving towards GTK3, CSD became the only option. What you're asking for is a new feature because GNOME never supported both. Legacy apps using X11 will use the legacy X11 decorations. Those should still work. For Wayland apps, those were never working correctly if they didn't support CSD. What you're again asking for is a new feature, there are no legacy Wayland apps that will depend on that functionality because it never existed in GNOME Wayland.
  - simion314 5y ago
    > SSD was the only option. When GNOME apps started moving towards GTK3, CSD became the only option. What you're asking for is a new feature because GNOME never supported both. Really? , You should just hide the Window titlebar , and paint your own CSD, titlebars were not forced on you https://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-decorated https://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-wi... , this is how for example splashscreens are implemented or fancy non rectangular windows , but to be honest I am not 100% sure if GNOME2 was also an asshold and disabled this GTK feature just to be spacial, if you can confirm then let me know if I am right then you need to acknowledge the fact that SSD was not forced on you(not Qt,not GTK, not even Windows/OSX forced SSD on you )
    - 5y ago

shatteredgate 5y ago

>Isn't GTK where the CSD (client side decoration) is being forced onto every app No. GTK doesn't have any preference for decorations, you can use either one when writing GTK apps: https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/method.Window.set_decorated.html https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/method.Window.set_decorated.html The app developer gets to choose what decorations they support. Some app developers will choose to only support a certain type of decorations; that's an intentional design decision made as part of the app. In the past, GNOME app developers have chosen to use CSD and XFCE developers didn't, but there seems to be a shift from them towards CSD too. I've also seen some XFCE users saying they like the CSD.