3 ms·

Another option is to cap loans and financial aid at like 10K/year and force all of the schools to adjust.

by m_ke 5y ago

twblalock 5y ago
Schools won't adjust in the way you want them to -- they will start shifting admissions further toward international students (who already pay a lot more than local students) and the outcome will be that rich American kids are the only Americans who get to go to college.
- heartbeats 5y ago
  Surely, they would be able to get their education somewhere? It's not like it's physically impossible to provide education at $10k/year. I live in Europe, I went to a normal university, and I think the "market rate" for non-EU students was something like that. If you capped it to $10k/year, are you saying there simply wouldn't be anyone around to give you an education at that price in the whole country?
  - twblalock 5y ago
    It would be very unlikely to find a bachelor's degree program in the United States that would cost less than $10k per year, particularly when cost of housing and other expenses is considered. For example, this is the tuition and expenses for CSU East Bay, one of the less expensive public universities in California: https://www.csueastbay.edu/financialaid/prospective-students1/cost-of-attendance.html https://www.csueastbay.edu/financialaid/prospective-students... A tuition of about $7k balloons to over $20k when the cost of books, housing, etc. are added.
    - heartbeats 5y ago
      That still doesn't show it's impossible, only that nobody is doing it at present. I remember talking to some exchange students from Greece. There, college is 100% free (no debt). This is guaranteed by their constitution, and the system simply has to adapt. For example, nearly everyone lives with their parents, books are free because they have to be, etc. More broadly, all of these costs seem like they could be reduced, if you had the proper incentives. "Food and housing" comes to $900/month, living with parents. Are they suggesting students are eating $900 worth of food ($30/day!), or does this include some type of rent paid to their parents as well? I spend about $300/month on food, and I'm not even that stingy. Where does the extra $600 go? The average high school in my country spends $4/student/day on providing school lunches. This includes labour costs - we're talking basically catering. Naively extrapolating this, we get $12/day ($360/month) for three proper meals a day. For that matter, why are the dorms so expensive? Isn't it their land? Why don't they just lower the rents? $1200 food+rent implies $900 rent, which is obviously way more than you need to maintain a dorm room. If they're living on campus, why do they need to spend $135/month on transportation anyway? Isn't the entire point that the place they need to be is right there? A bicycle works out to $50 one-time cost, plus let's say $10/year in repairs. What's the $1000/year on books get them? Why can't the university simply use cheaper books? Wikipedia tells us: "East Bay has a student body of almost 15,000". That's $15 million per year. For that much money, couldn't you just buy up the rights for all the books you needed and put them into the public domain? I just don't understand why you couldn't simply make the schools more effective.
- firstplacelast 5y ago
  Oh well. Then all of these companies will have to start adjusting to the work-force available. Outside of careers like doctor/lawyer, you can do most jobs without a college degree, but currently you can’t get hired without one in many, many cases. If very few have a degree, companies will adjust and people will end up in similar careers without the massive time/money investment of college.

Another option is to cap loans and financial aid at like 10K/year and force all of the schools to adjust.

by m_ke 5y ago

Another option is to cap loans and financial aid at like 10K/year and force all of the schools to adjust.

Schools won't adjust in the way you want them to -- they will start shifting admissions further toward international students (who already pay a lot more than local students) and the outcome will be that rich American kids are the only Americans who get to go to college.

heartbeats 5y ago
Surely, they would be able to get their education somewhere? It's not like it's physically impossible to provide education at $10k/year. I live in Europe, I went to a normal university, and I think the "market rate" for non-EU students was something like that. If you capped it to $10k/year, are you saying there simply wouldn't be anyone around to give you an education at that price in the whole country?
- twblalock 5y ago
  It would be very unlikely to find a bachelor's degree program in the United States that would cost less than $10k per year, particularly when cost of housing and other expenses is considered. For example, this is the tuition and expenses for CSU East Bay, one of the less expensive public universities in California: https://www.csueastbay.edu/financialaid/prospective-students1/cost-of-attendance.html https://www.csueastbay.edu/financialaid/prospective-students... A tuition of about $7k balloons to over $20k when the cost of books, housing, etc. are added.
  - heartbeats 5y ago
    That still doesn't show it's impossible, only that nobody is doing it at present. I remember talking to some exchange students from Greece. There, college is 100% free (no debt). This is guaranteed by their constitution, and the system simply has to adapt. For example, nearly everyone lives with their parents, books are free because they have to be, etc. More broadly, all of these costs seem like they could be reduced, if you had the proper incentives. "Food and housing" comes to $900/month, living with parents. Are they suggesting students are eating $900 worth of food ($30/day!), or does this include some type of rent paid to their parents as well? I spend about $300/month on food, and I'm not even that stingy. Where does the extra $600 go? The average high school in my country spends $4/student/day on providing school lunches. This includes labour costs - we're talking basically catering. Naively extrapolating this, we get $12/day ($360/month) for three proper meals a day. For that matter, why are the dorms so expensive? Isn't it their land? Why don't they just lower the rents? $1200 food+rent implies $900 rent, which is obviously way more than you need to maintain a dorm room. If they're living on campus, why do they need to spend $135/month on transportation anyway? Isn't the entire point that the place they need to be is right there? A bicycle works out to $50 one-time cost, plus let's say $10/year in repairs. What's the $1000/year on books get them? Why can't the university simply use cheaper books? Wikipedia tells us: "East Bay has a student body of almost 15,000". That's $15 million per year. For that much money, couldn't you just buy up the rights for all the books you needed and put them into the public domain? I just don't understand why you couldn't simply make the schools more effective.
firstplacelast 5y ago
Oh well. Then all of these companies will have to start adjusting to the work-force available. Outside of careers like doctor/lawyer, you can do most jobs without a college degree, but currently you can’t get hired without one in many, many cases. If very few have a degree, companies will adjust and people will end up in similar careers without the massive time/money investment of college.