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You're arguing against claims I didn't make. Liberal Arts is perfectly valuable, but burying yourself financially to get a degree in one of the subjects, which

You're arguing against claims I didn't make. Liberal Arts is perfectly valuable, but burying yourself financially to get a degree in one of the subjects, which is what will happen to most people who complete one of those degrees from NYU, isn't a smart move and that's where my lack of sympathy lies. No offense but you're arguing against some thought you have of me in your head not any of my actual stances on liberal arts. My only point is that if you're going to go to an expensive college then the trade off better be worth it otherwise there are far cheaper alternatives (reading is free mostly!) to get that value.

wolverine876 5y ago
> Liberal Arts is perfectly valuable, but burying yourself financially to get a degree in one of the subjects, which is what will happen to most people who complete one of those degrees from NYU, isn't a smart move and that's where my lack of sympathy lies. I'm saying that it is a smart move (if you are serious about learning). It benefits the students and society on an essential level. > there are far cheaper alternatives (reading is free mostly!) to get that value. It's not the same value: Learning from the world's leading experts, with all the resources you need (reading, just one tool, is certainly not free - try downloading some papers or buying a library of scholarly books), among smart, motivated, hard-working people, is invaluable. Do you want to learn software development from Google Fellows at Google, or from the local front end shop dev? What you get at top universities are Google Fellows in their fields. Do you want to study painting with world-class painters or the person at the mall? Someone I know is in undergrad at one of the top 10 schools in the world, and in every class my friend studies with someone who literally wrote the book in their field, whom personally guides their learning, lectures on it, and whom my friend personally and regularly meets with as a matter of course. My friend is serious about learning these things - can you imagine something more valuable?
- ianbutler 5y ago
  Okay, people can enjoy being in debt then. I'm not going to agree with you, I think your take especially for an undergraduate degree is ridiculous and poorly weighted. You should check with your friend how much debt they're in. I'd imagine it's 0 and if that's the case they made a good call. You'll benefit no one with your education while scraping by under the thumb of a corp because you can't afford to stop working as a debt slave. That's the reality most people face which is something you seem to ignore.
- torbTurret 5y ago
  Every response like this praising Liberal Arts seems to ignore two things: 1. Leaders (executives and management) at top companies almost always come from these top universities you rave about, and many with degrees in Liberal Arts. Yet they still always put profit > the ideals you just spent three paragraphs praising. 2. ALL students in the US receive a Liberal Arts education via general education requirements. On the contrary, only a select few take anything over remedial math/science. This also puts “leading experts” on a far higher pedestal than deserved. Take Robert Reich, a famous History professor at Berkeley. Despite raving about affordable housing and equality in courses, on Twitter, etc., he actively votes against such legislation [0]. Did his liberal arts education at Dartmouth, Oxford, and Yale fail him? 0: https://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/robert-reich-tries-to-stop-affordable-housing-near-his-mansion-in-berkeley https://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/robert-reich-tries-to-st...
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > 1. Leaders (executives and management) at top companies almost always come from these top universities you rave about, and many with degrees in Liberal Arts. Yet they still always put profit > the ideals you just spent three paragraphs praising. I don't think I mentioned any ideals. Also, your disagreement with their decisions doesn't make them wrong or, more to the point, unaided by their educations. > Take Robert Reich, a famous History professor ... You personally disagree with someone who is a leader in liberal arts (and on the level of one among thousands), therefore all liberal arts education for everyone is invalidated? Your support is an (anonymous?) post in a forum on Economics Job Market Rumors? If you are accurate, one leader (of thousands) in liberal arts is flawed, so their entire education is a waste and all of liberal arts is without value? (What about you and me - are we flawed? Is everything we've learned therefore a waste? What about every other commenter and OP author on HN?) Disagreement is part of liberal arts - it's essential, defining, for liberal arts to contain multiple contrary opinions simultaneously. Human flaws are part of liberal arts - it's impossible for it to work otherwise, as with any human endeavor. But claims without factual and rational basis are excluded. Also, Reich is an economist and professor of public policy.

wolverine876 5y ago

> Liberal Arts is perfectly valuable, but burying yourself financially to get a degree in one of the subjects, which is what will happen to most people who complete one of those degrees from NYU, isn't a smart move and that's where my lack of sympathy lies. I'm saying that it is a smart move (if you are serious about learning). It benefits the students and society on an essential level. > there are far cheaper alternatives (reading is free mostly!) to get that value. It's not the same value: Learning from the world's leading experts, with all the resources you need (reading, just one tool, is certainly not free - try downloading some papers or buying a library of scholarly books), among smart, motivated, hard-working people, is invaluable. Do you want to learn software development from Google Fellows at Google, or from the local front end shop dev? What you get at top universities are Google Fellows in their fields. Do you want to study painting with world-class painters or the person at the mall? Someone I know is in undergrad at one of the top 10 schools in the world, and in every class my friend studies with someone who literally wrote the book in their field, whom personally guides their learning, lectures on it, and whom my friend personally and regularly meets with as a matter of course. My friend is serious about learning these things - can you imagine something more valuable?

ianbutler 5y ago
Okay, people can enjoy being in debt then. I'm not going to agree with you, I think your take especially for an undergraduate degree is ridiculous and poorly weighted. You should check with your friend how much debt they're in. I'd imagine it's 0 and if that's the case they made a good call. You'll benefit no one with your education while scraping by under the thumb of a corp because you can't afford to stop working as a debt slave. That's the reality most people face which is something you seem to ignore.
torbTurret 5y ago
Every response like this praising Liberal Arts seems to ignore two things: 1. Leaders (executives and management) at top companies almost always come from these top universities you rave about, and many with degrees in Liberal Arts. Yet they still always put profit > the ideals you just spent three paragraphs praising. 2. ALL students in the US receive a Liberal Arts education via general education requirements. On the contrary, only a select few take anything over remedial math/science. This also puts “leading experts” on a far higher pedestal than deserved. Take Robert Reich, a famous History professor at Berkeley. Despite raving about affordable housing and equality in courses, on Twitter, etc., he actively votes against such legislation [0]. Did his liberal arts education at Dartmouth, Oxford, and Yale fail him? 0: https://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/robert-reich-tries-to-stop-affordable-housing-near-his-mansion-in-berkeley https://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/robert-reich-tries-to-st...
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > 1. Leaders (executives and management) at top companies almost always come from these top universities you rave about, and many with degrees in Liberal Arts. Yet they still always put profit > the ideals you just spent three paragraphs praising. I don't think I mentioned any ideals. Also, your disagreement with their decisions doesn't make them wrong or, more to the point, unaided by their educations. > Take Robert Reich, a famous History professor ... You personally disagree with someone who is a leader in liberal arts (and on the level of one among thousands), therefore all liberal arts education for everyone is invalidated? Your support is an (anonymous?) post in a forum on Economics Job Market Rumors? If you are accurate, one leader (of thousands) in liberal arts is flawed, so their entire education is a waste and all of liberal arts is without value? (What about you and me - are we flawed? Is everything we've learned therefore a waste? What about every other commenter and OP author on HN?) Disagreement is part of liberal arts - it's essential, defining, for liberal arts to contain multiple contrary opinions simultaneously. Human flaws are part of liberal arts - it's impossible for it to work otherwise, as with any human endeavor. But claims without factual and rational basis are excluded. Also, Reich is an economist and professor of public policy.