5 ms·

What-aboutisms and calling people jingoist. Who exactly do you think you're convincing other than yourself? Point me to the last time the US used its navy to

What-aboutisms and calling people jingoist. Who exactly do you think you're convincing other than yourself? Point me to the last time the US used its navy to directly threaten merchant shipping.

syki 5y ago
It’s not an example of using the navy but it’s effect - the result is what matters, not the means - is the same. https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-against-dealing-top-iran-shipper-201837683.html https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-against-dealing-top-iran-shi... This one involves the Navy. https://news.antiwar.com/2020/05/19/us-threatens-ships-in-persian-gulf-tells-them-to-stay-clear/ https://news.antiwar.com/2020/05/19/us-threatens-ships-in-pe...
whimsicalism 5y ago
I am not making a whataboutism claim. I am merely trying to figure out what our standard for "bullying" behavior is. If the standard for "bullying" behavior happens to also apply to the US and is the impetus for why Lithuana evacuated its embassy, then I would suggest they should evacuate their US embassy as well. If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, then I am just seeking to figure out what the standard is that makes China's behavior uniquely bad. I think it is pretty undeniable that jingoistic rhetoric has increased in both China and the US in recent years.
- stale2002 5y ago
  The reason why Lithuania has not evacuated it's US embassy is obviously because china is directly targeting Lithuania right now and the US isn't. Was that really a hard question to answer?
- krisoft 5y ago
  > If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, … That is a simple one. The US is not hurting Lithuania the same way China is hurting Lithuania. This is the reason why Lithuania evacuated their Chinese embassy and not their US embassy. Your question seems to imply that Lithuania drawn a big tally of the Chinese “moral failings” in general and decided to withdraw. This is not what happened. Lithuania allowed Taiwan to open an embassy in their country. In response, the PRC recalled its ambassador in Vilnius, Shen Zhifei, and demanded that Lithuania recall its ambassador in Beijing, Diana Mickevičienė. Following this Lithuania experienced a trade distruption. Shipments to and from Lithuania didn’t clear Chinese customs and invoices went unpaid. It goes as far that assemblies containing Lithuanian parts get blocked by the Chinese. This is not rhetoric. This is not some feel-good measure to communicate displeasure with China in an abstract. This is a trade war. Now I ask: is the US doing anything like this to Lithuania right now?
dawkins 5y ago
Cuba?
throwaway_1_234 5y ago
Didn't the US seize a bunch of Iranian oil recently? The newspapers say no military ships were involved [1], but it seems fairly straight-forward that the US is using its clout and military might to impede free trade between two independent actors (Iran/Venezuela). The same could be said of America's failed attempt to block Nordstream-2, where the US unceremoniously tried to insert itself between two third parties trying to trade (Russia/Germany). These examples are, obviously, not about using "navy to threaten shipping", but the general point stands -- US actively uses its position to punish its geopolitical opponents by disrupting their trade. China aspires to do the same. That you Westerners are fearful and angry about it is understandable, but this behavior is not unique to China. China is literally learning from you. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/middleeast/trump-iran-venezuela-fuel-tankers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/middleeast/trump-ir... edit: "seize" not cease

What-aboutisms and calling people jingoist. Who exactly do you think you're convincing other than yourself? Point me to the last time the US used its navy to directly threaten merchant shipping.

syki 5y ago

It’s not an example of using the navy but it’s effect - the result is what matters, not the means - is the same. https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-against-dealing-top-iran-shipper-201837683.html https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-against-dealing-top-iran-shi... This one involves the Navy. https://news.antiwar.com/2020/05/19/us-threatens-ships-in-persian-gulf-tells-them-to-stay-clear/ https://news.antiwar.com/2020/05/19/us-threatens-ships-in-pe...

whimsicalism 5y ago

I am not making a whataboutism claim. I am merely trying to figure out what our standard for "bullying" behavior is. If the standard for "bullying" behavior happens to also apply to the US and is the impetus for why Lithuana evacuated its embassy, then I would suggest they should evacuate their US embassy as well. If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, then I am just seeking to figure out what the standard is that makes China's behavior uniquely bad. I think it is pretty undeniable that jingoistic rhetoric has increased in both China and the US in recent years.

stale2002 5y ago
The reason why Lithuania has not evacuated it's US embassy is obviously because china is directly targeting Lithuania right now and the US isn't. Was that really a hard question to answer?
krisoft 5y ago
> If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, … That is a simple one. The US is not hurting Lithuania the same way China is hurting Lithuania. This is the reason why Lithuania evacuated their Chinese embassy and not their US embassy. Your question seems to imply that Lithuania drawn a big tally of the Chinese “moral failings” in general and decided to withdraw. This is not what happened. Lithuania allowed Taiwan to open an embassy in their country. In response, the PRC recalled its ambassador in Vilnius, Shen Zhifei, and demanded that Lithuania recall its ambassador in Beijing, Diana Mickevičienė. Following this Lithuania experienced a trade distruption. Shipments to and from Lithuania didn’t clear Chinese customs and invoices went unpaid. It goes as far that assemblies containing Lithuanian parts get blocked by the Chinese. This is not rhetoric. This is not some feel-good measure to communicate displeasure with China in an abstract. This is a trade war. Now I ask: is the US doing anything like this to Lithuania right now?

dawkins 5y ago

Cuba?

throwaway_1_234 5y ago

Didn't the US seize a bunch of Iranian oil recently? The newspapers say no military ships were involved [1], but it seems fairly straight-forward that the US is using its clout and military might to impede free trade between two independent actors (Iran/Venezuela). The same could be said of America's failed attempt to block Nordstream-2, where the US unceremoniously tried to insert itself between two third parties trying to trade (Russia/Germany). These examples are, obviously, not about using "navy to threaten shipping", but the general point stands -- US actively uses its position to punish its geopolitical opponents by disrupting their trade. China aspires to do the same. That you Westerners are fearful and angry about it is understandable, but this behavior is not unique to China. China is literally learning from you. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/middleeast/trump-iran-venezuela-fuel-tankers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/world/middleeast/trump-ir... edit: "seize" not cease