4 ms·

you can get a masters in public health at a school that doesn't cost 80k a year in one of the most expensive cities in the world you know I'm getting real tire

you can get a masters in public health at a school that doesn't cost 80k a year in one of the most expensive cities in the world you know I'm getting real tired of hearing these sob stories about not being able to pay for rent and food and being saddled with a lifetime of debt because you make very poor decisions

bingohbangoh 5y ago
Even crazier is that tuition went up at its fastest rate last year apparently -- _even during the pandemic!_. People are more thirsty than ever for college. This is one of the things I got most wrong about the Pandemic (the other being they wouldn't dare attempt a third lockdown).
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  [dead]
- cm2187 5y ago
  I think it is rather the result of money printing, and particularly how it was introduced (financial system). Plus labour shortage for highly educated people which drove up their salary. As a result all the activities of the upper middle class have known high inflation: expensive restaurants, prime real estate, art, college tuitions, etc. [edit] I guess also the explosion of the chinese upper middle class should also be a big factor.
jimbob45 5y ago
The general consensus on HN seems to have coalesced around “it matters relatively little where you go for your undergrad but relatively high for where you go for your postgrad”. That advice doesn’t seem to have percolated through to the hoi polloi yet though.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  What makes the general concensus on HN the Truth, superior what the hoi polloi believe (especially about their own lives)? (And the bigger questionn: people who aren't on HN are hoi polloi? Wow. What does that make us? And it's so easy to get an HN account ...)
- grogenaut 5y ago
  one can flip that statement though, it matters a lot where you go for undergrad, eg pick a school solidly in thr "totally fine" rep wise and "very cheap" in the money side and come out with much more options instead of mandataory work to immediately begin repayment.
chmod600 5y ago
There's something to be said about whether we are encouraging bad decisions, though. We're talking about an 18 year old (many of whom have never had any financial responsibility at all) making a decision that could saddle them with hundreds of thousands in debt that can't be escaped even by bankruptcy. We need to stop literally underwriting (as taxpayers) bad decisions. And private banks that do underwrite such decisions need to face the possibility of bankruptcy in some form (maybe not quick and easy bankruptcy after 2 years, but something).
- meatsauce 5y ago
  If someone encouraged you to drink poison, and you choose to drink poison of your own volition, meaning nobody forced you to drink it; only suggested that you do, despite knowing it was hazardous, you consumed it. Who is responsible for drinking the poison? I agree that we don't prepare high school kids for real life. We're too busy focusing on their feelings and building a generation of weak minded fools that will never be fully functional adults. I also agree that we need government out of the edu loan business. It is a poison pill and just enriches the self-serving class that operates these schools. The greatest mistake was allowing them to lobby and sell the American people the BS that a college degree is required to live a good life. There are endless examples of that not being the case.
  - chmod600 5y ago
    The argument for college is significantly more enticing than drinking poison: * All your friends are leaving to amazing places. If you don't go you'll be left behind. * Going to college is a high class move. Even if you're poor, people will still probably think you are high class if you sign up. * Everyone says you make more money. * People won't hire you unless you have a degree. * If you sign here, you get awesome friends, the best dating opportunities possible on Earth, and we'll show you your true path in life. * Nobody will ever criticize this decision even if it's foolish. No matter how foolish, the worst case scenario still shields you from any consequences for five years. * Five years is a long time. Maybe you'll marry someone with money that you meet here. And politicians keep talking about free college, so maybe you won't have to pay it back. An 18 year old would have to be really mature and self-confident not to sign up. Maybe a wise 18 year old would choose a cheap college and a good major, but very few will resist it entirely.
wolverine876 5y ago
> you can get a masters in public health at a school that doesn't cost 80k a year in one of the most expensive cities in the world While I agree, there is a clear benefit to the student, and to society (through the student's productivity), in learning from the best teachers with better resources, and in a community of the most brilliant people (which tend to become very expensive). I want public health professionals that come up with brilliant solutions to our problems. Anyone in any profession I think would choose that avenue of skill acquisition over the discount option. People in finance go to NY, people in IT go to SV, etc., for good reasons. That said, it is a matter of degree. NYU seems to be near one pole of extra cost. If you are in California, for example, there are at least two public universities that are considered better than NYU.
- meatsauce 5y ago
Hydraulix989 5y ago
What do MPHs even do? What kinds of jobs do they get, and how much do they pay? Sounds like a very low ROI degree. If you're interested in getting an advanced education in the healthcare field, you might as well either get an MD (to make the advanced degree worth it) or go to a less expensive city and become a PA, DPT, or OT at a public university. Out of all of the options in healthcare, MPH at NYU seems like the most excessive waste of money.
- clusterhacks 5y ago
  An MPH is very different from an MD or PA degree and it is a mistake to conflate the MPH with those programs. Despite the name, it usually isn't a degree that puts you into a direct "patient-care" healthcare setting. Many graduates from the top MPH programs go onto leadership and management positions - for these programs, my experience is that there is a significant focus on the leadership aspect layered with specialist knowledge in policy, epidemiology, biostatistics, health care administration, etc. Many MPH programs will offer subspecialties like that - so you get, for example, an MPH in biostatistics or epi rather than a generic MPH without a focus. Pay can vary greatly. Some MPH graduates will work in non-profits and others will wind-up running clinical trials at big pharma. You can imagine the kind of salary range those very different job types cover. I would be extremely cautious about making a ROI judgement of the MPH. I know MPH grads who have worked as direct advisors to US senators, MPH grads who write biostats software, and MPH grads who help run rape crisis centers in underserved communities. There are also combined programs for MD/MPH linking up a school of medicine at a university with its MPH program. Those grads are often looking to lead research efforts or county-level health departments. More generally speaking, I think you aren't wrong about NYU being an "excessive waste of money" but I don't think that has much to do with the degree in question. I have met too many successful people with "low ROI" degrees just in the software industry to feel confident about judging these programs in general. Which, of course, is very different than saying it is a good idea to rack up $157,000 in debt (like the student FTA) for any program from any school.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

bingohbangoh 5y ago

Even crazier is that tuition went up at its fastest rate last year apparently -- _even during the pandemic!_. People are more thirsty than ever for college. This is one of the things I got most wrong about the Pandemic (the other being they wouldn't dare attempt a third lockdown).

redis_mlc 5y ago
[dead]
cm2187 5y ago
I think it is rather the result of money printing, and particularly how it was introduced (financial system). Plus labour shortage for highly educated people which drove up their salary. As a result all the activities of the upper middle class have known high inflation: expensive restaurants, prime real estate, art, college tuitions, etc. [edit] I guess also the explosion of the chinese upper middle class should also be a big factor.

jimbob45 5y ago

The general consensus on HN seems to have coalesced around “it matters relatively little where you go for your undergrad but relatively high for where you go for your postgrad”. That advice doesn’t seem to have percolated through to the hoi polloi yet though.

wolverine876 5y ago
What makes the general concensus on HN the Truth, superior what the hoi polloi believe (especially about their own lives)? (And the bigger questionn: people who aren't on HN are hoi polloi? Wow. What does that make us? And it's so easy to get an HN account ...)
grogenaut 5y ago
one can flip that statement though, it matters a lot where you go for undergrad, eg pick a school solidly in thr "totally fine" rep wise and "very cheap" in the money side and come out with much more options instead of mandataory work to immediately begin repayment.

chmod600 5y ago

There's something to be said about whether we are encouraging bad decisions, though. We're talking about an 18 year old (many of whom have never had any financial responsibility at all) making a decision that could saddle them with hundreds of thousands in debt that can't be escaped even by bankruptcy. We need to stop literally underwriting (as taxpayers) bad decisions. And private banks that do underwrite such decisions need to face the possibility of bankruptcy in some form (maybe not quick and easy bankruptcy after 2 years, but something).

meatsauce 5y ago
If someone encouraged you to drink poison, and you choose to drink poison of your own volition, meaning nobody forced you to drink it; only suggested that you do, despite knowing it was hazardous, you consumed it. Who is responsible for drinking the poison? I agree that we don't prepare high school kids for real life. We're too busy focusing on their feelings and building a generation of weak minded fools that will never be fully functional adults. I also agree that we need government out of the edu loan business. It is a poison pill and just enriches the self-serving class that operates these schools. The greatest mistake was allowing them to lobby and sell the American people the BS that a college degree is required to live a good life. There are endless examples of that not being the case.
- chmod600 5y ago
  The argument for college is significantly more enticing than drinking poison: * All your friends are leaving to amazing places. If you don't go you'll be left behind. * Going to college is a high class move. Even if you're poor, people will still probably think you are high class if you sign up. * Everyone says you make more money. * People won't hire you unless you have a degree. * If you sign here, you get awesome friends, the best dating opportunities possible on Earth, and we'll show you your true path in life. * Nobody will ever criticize this decision even if it's foolish. No matter how foolish, the worst case scenario still shields you from any consequences for five years. * Five years is a long time. Maybe you'll marry someone with money that you meet here. And politicians keep talking about free college, so maybe you won't have to pay it back. An 18 year old would have to be really mature and self-confident not to sign up. Maybe a wise 18 year old would choose a cheap college and a good major, but very few will resist it entirely.

wolverine876 5y ago

> you can get a masters in public health at a school that doesn't cost 80k a year in one of the most expensive cities in the world While I agree, there is a clear benefit to the student, and to society (through the student's productivity), in learning from the best teachers with better resources, and in a community of the most brilliant people (which tend to become very expensive). I want public health professionals that come up with brilliant solutions to our problems. Anyone in any profession I think would choose that avenue of skill acquisition over the discount option. People in finance go to NY, people in IT go to SV, etc., for good reasons. That said, it is a matter of degree. NYU seems to be near one pole of extra cost. If you are in California, for example, there are at least two public universities that are considered better than NYU.

meatsauce 5y ago

Hydraulix989 5y ago

What do MPHs even do? What kinds of jobs do they get, and how much do they pay? Sounds like a very low ROI degree. If you're interested in getting an advanced education in the healthcare field, you might as well either get an MD (to make the advanced degree worth it) or go to a less expensive city and become a PA, DPT, or OT at a public university. Out of all of the options in healthcare, MPH at NYU seems like the most excessive waste of money.

clusterhacks 5y ago
An MPH is very different from an MD or PA degree and it is a mistake to conflate the MPH with those programs. Despite the name, it usually isn't a degree that puts you into a direct "patient-care" healthcare setting. Many graduates from the top MPH programs go onto leadership and management positions - for these programs, my experience is that there is a significant focus on the leadership aspect layered with specialist knowledge in policy, epidemiology, biostatistics, health care administration, etc. Many MPH programs will offer subspecialties like that - so you get, for example, an MPH in biostatistics or epi rather than a generic MPH without a focus. Pay can vary greatly. Some MPH graduates will work in non-profits and others will wind-up running clinical trials at big pharma. You can imagine the kind of salary range those very different job types cover. I would be extremely cautious about making a ROI judgement of the MPH. I know MPH grads who have worked as direct advisors to US senators, MPH grads who write biostats software, and MPH grads who help run rape crisis centers in underserved communities. There are also combined programs for MD/MPH linking up a school of medicine at a university with its MPH program. Those grads are often looking to lead research efforts or county-level health departments. More generally speaking, I think you aren't wrong about NYU being an "excessive waste of money" but I don't think that has much to do with the degree in question. I have met too many successful people with "low ROI" degrees just in the software industry to feel confident about judging these programs in general. Which, of course, is very different than saying it is a good idea to rack up $157,000 in debt (like the student FTA) for any program from any school.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]