11 ms·

The top two majors at NYU, by percentage, probably don't end in a high average salary after graduation. Visual and Performing Arts 17% Social Sciences 14%

by tyingq 5y ago

The top two majors at NYU, by percentage, probably don't end in a high average salary after graduation. Visual and Performing Arts 17% Social Sciences 14% Then, $77k/year cost before aid, plus the high cost of living for the area. No surprise then.

rayiner 5y ago
This is why I refuse to support college loan bailouts, despite generally supporting welfare. Instead let’s give a bunch of money to kids who forwent an expensive art or social sciences degree to get a solid, practical job.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I agree with you, though you should consider means-tested loan bailouts targeting working class people, victims of for-profit colleges, and particularly people with relatively low (compared to NYU grads) burdens that didn't graduate. The median college debt burden is surprisingly low; the problem is that the media is preoccupied by the plights of people like those who work in the media --- high-earning-potential vanity-university graduates. Relief for NYU students though seems pretty far-fetched.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rayiner 5y ago
    Fair point, particularly people who didn’t graduate. There’s a lot of people being pushed into college that aren’t ready for it and won’t really benefit.
- eunoia 5y ago
  Oh nice, looks like we finally figured out the meaning of life, the universe, why we’re here, etc: > a solid, practical job. ffs Edit to be a bit less flippant: As a holder of a “solid, practical job” for over a decade I definitely feel there should be more to life and don’t fault those who aspired for more than just practicality at the age of 17/18.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    There is more to life than a solid, practical job, but there isn't much more to what the government should subsidize, for the same reason the government shouldn't provide universal free yacht moorings ("don't you understand that the journey", proponents would argue, "is about so much more than the destination!").
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > there isn't much more to what the government should subsidize, for the same reason the government shouldn't provide universal free yacht moorings Let's be aware of our bias toward our own knowledge and work. Knowledge of humanities and social sciences is not a luxury; it addresses almost all the critical issues in society - freedom, peace, war, prosperity, politics, economics, human nature through which it all happens, communication, conflict, power, democracy, capitalism, communism, etc. etc. All things more important than whatever most of us do.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        A post-secondary 4-year education in the humanities is a luxury almost by definition, since it is not available to a substantial portion of the population (including many who attend 4-year college!), and wouldn't be even if tuition were free. The arts are important too, but owning a Renoir is still a luxury. I reject the argument that taking 4 years of courses on "communication, conflict, power, democracy, capitalism, communism, etc" is "more important" than "whatever most of us do", and I reject it for a bunch of reasons, not just the obvious one that taking a class on power is not the same thing is engaging with power.
        TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
        Which is why lawyers and media operators run the country. While you're rejecting the argument, they're using it against you. And you're being persuaded by them. Successfully. While still being convinced that the status quo isn't just the best of all possible worlds, everything you believe about it is your own idea.
- nojito 5y ago
  The “bailouts” are for students of community colleges and state universities. Definitely a worthwhile policy to pursue.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Flagship state universities are an expensive luxury product. Means-tested relief is worth pursuing, but "state school graduates" writ large are not an especially sympathetic cohort.
    - nojito 5y ago
      SUNY still costs way less NYU and calling state universities luxury in the same sentence as NYU is quite hilarious.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        Just because a Maserati Quattroporte costs $100k doesn't mean a BMW 5-Series isn't a luxury.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  I would reasonably support these bailouts if everyone else could get the same money as lump sum... But that would be insane in itself...
notjulianjaynes 5y ago
> Visual and Performing Arts 17% The NYU Tisch School of the Arts is widely considered one of the best film schools in the world. I'm sure it graduates plenty of starving artists, but certainly also a disproportionate number go on to be incredibly successful compared to the same degree from your standard community college. It should still be less expensive. Take a look at some of the alumni: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NYU_Tisch_School_of_the_Arts_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NYU_Tisch_School_of_th...
TrackerFF 5y ago
From what I've read, schools like NYU, Columbia, etc. offer creative arts programs at nosebleed prices. These are legit schools, even very prestigious programs - but it's still a sort of "pay to play" prestige mill that attracts students with rich / well-off parents. But alas, when you come from a normal family, it's hard to justify $50k-$80k/yr tuition - especially if you're not connected, or have backup plans.

by tyingq 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago

This is why I refuse to support college loan bailouts, despite generally supporting welfare. Instead let’s give a bunch of money to kids who forwent an expensive art or social sciences degree to get a solid, practical job.

tptacek 5y ago
I agree with you, though you should consider means-tested loan bailouts targeting working class people, victims of for-profit colleges, and particularly people with relatively low (compared to NYU grads) burdens that didn't graduate. The median college debt burden is surprisingly low; the problem is that the media is preoccupied by the plights of people like those who work in the media --- high-earning-potential vanity-university graduates. Relief for NYU students though seems pretty far-fetched.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 5y ago
  Fair point, particularly people who didn’t graduate. There’s a lot of people being pushed into college that aren’t ready for it and won’t really benefit.
eunoia 5y ago
Oh nice, looks like we finally figured out the meaning of life, the universe, why we’re here, etc: > a solid, practical job. ffs Edit to be a bit less flippant: As a holder of a “solid, practical job” for over a decade I definitely feel there should be more to life and don’t fault those who aspired for more than just practicality at the age of 17/18.
- tptacek 5y ago
  There is more to life than a solid, practical job, but there isn't much more to what the government should subsidize, for the same reason the government shouldn't provide universal free yacht moorings ("don't you understand that the journey", proponents would argue, "is about so much more than the destination!").
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > there isn't much more to what the government should subsidize, for the same reason the government shouldn't provide universal free yacht moorings Let's be aware of our bias toward our own knowledge and work. Knowledge of humanities and social sciences is not a luxury; it addresses almost all the critical issues in society - freedom, peace, war, prosperity, politics, economics, human nature through which it all happens, communication, conflict, power, democracy, capitalism, communism, etc. etc. All things more important than whatever most of us do.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      A post-secondary 4-year education in the humanities is a luxury almost by definition, since it is not available to a substantial portion of the population (including many who attend 4-year college!), and wouldn't be even if tuition were free. The arts are important too, but owning a Renoir is still a luxury. I reject the argument that taking 4 years of courses on "communication, conflict, power, democracy, capitalism, communism, etc" is "more important" than "whatever most of us do", and I reject it for a bunch of reasons, not just the obvious one that taking a class on power is not the same thing is engaging with power.
      - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
        Which is why lawyers and media operators run the country. While you're rejecting the argument, they're using it against you. And you're being persuaded by them. Successfully. While still being convinced that the status quo isn't just the best of all possible worlds, everything you believe about it is your own idea.
nojito 5y ago
The “bailouts” are for students of community colleges and state universities. Definitely a worthwhile policy to pursue.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Flagship state universities are an expensive luxury product. Means-tested relief is worth pursuing, but "state school graduates" writ large are not an especially sympathetic cohort.
  - nojito 5y ago
    SUNY still costs way less NYU and calling state universities luxury in the same sentence as NYU is quite hilarious.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      Just because a Maserati Quattroporte costs $100k doesn't mean a BMW 5-Series isn't a luxury.
Ekaros 5y ago
I would reasonably support these bailouts if everyone else could get the same money as lump sum... But that would be insane in itself...

notjulianjaynes 5y ago

> Visual and Performing Arts 17% The NYU Tisch School of the Arts is widely considered one of the best film schools in the world. I'm sure it graduates plenty of starving artists, but certainly also a disproportionate number go on to be incredibly successful compared to the same degree from your standard community college. It should still be less expensive. Take a look at some of the alumni: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NYU_Tisch_School_of_the_Arts_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NYU_Tisch_School_of_th...

TrackerFF 5y ago

From what I've read, schools like NYU, Columbia, etc. offer creative arts programs at nosebleed prices. These are legit schools, even very prestigious programs - but it's still a sort of "pay to play" prestige mill that attracts students with rich / well-off parents. But alas, when you come from a normal family, it's hard to justify $50k-$80k/yr tuition - especially if you're not connected, or have backup plans.