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> unification is Chinese core value Is warring with all neighbors a core value too? Chinese government, through censorship, controls the minds of the Chinese p

> unification is Chinese core value Is warring with all neighbors a core value too? Chinese government, through censorship, controls the minds of the Chinese people. The government needs to update the core values.

FooBarWidget 5y ago
My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. If we want an actual peaceful resolution then something has to give.
- calcifer 5y ago
  > If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. Who is we and they? Based on your Twitter profile, you're Chinese and your views seem perfectly aligned with the official CCP position.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    This user is also known for ignoring/downplaying the sexual assault allegations of Peng Shuai against a CCP official. Be wary. View parent(s) of this comment for details of how this user attempted to FUD her accusations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 Absolutely disgusting.
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago
      What's absolutely disgusting is you misrepresenting my views like that in order to smear me just because you don't like the fact that I have a different opinion about China. If you read that thread it is perfectly clear that I merely pointed out that different opinions about the situation exists without giving my own view, but that's not acceptable to you because you seek to doxx. To be perfectly clear, if that wasn't already so, I am against any kind of sexual assault and I support an investigation into corrupt officials. Thank you very much.
      - mthoms 5y ago
        You presented yourself as an authority (native speaker) and provided a translation + opinion of her statement. You omitted the part about her crying, etc. Why? And why do you refuse to you update us on your opinion now that the omission has been pointed out? Again, the question: does your opinion of her statement change when considering the panicked crying (that you casually omitted) which was pointed out by another user? >To be perfectly clear, if that wasn't already so, I am against any kind of sexual assault and I support an investigation into corrupt officials. Another dodge. The question isn't about generalities. It isn't about "different opinions about China". The question is about this very specific instance. (I didn't doxx you, your information is in your profile.)
        FooBarWidget 5y ago
        I never said I'm an authority, I simply posted a link to a translation and I said I checked it. People can choose to listen to me, or not. You made up the strawman that I'm positioning myself as an authority. My post was never supposed to be a full summary, and I never claimed that it is, so it's very strange that you attack me for not fully summarizing. Passages such as crying, feeling like a zombie, etc are already covered by western media and people have likely already read that -- me pointing out all that again does not add anything useful. The intention from the beginning is to let people read the full thing, including translation nuances, and to let them read parts that they probably haven't read yet (or not in its original form), so that people can make up their own minds. That includes reading up about crying, and more importantly, how the passage about crying was written as well as the context in which that passage appears. I added some commentary after people asked me to comment on another translation and compare that with the first. But that commentary was secondary to the main goal, which is to let people read the original, full text and make up their own minds. Thus it is neither necessary nor a goal of that commentary to be a full analysis, and I never claimed that it was. Why are you so obsessed with this? Why is my opinion so much more important to you than what Peng Shuai herself wrote in full? What are you afraid of? Why do you not like the fact that I let others read the original source? I think there is only one possible answer: you have a specific opinion that you want to force on others, so you are alarmed by others being exposed to more and original information. That's some chilling 1984 thought police behavior right there.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    Then you clearly either haven't read enough of my tweets, or you don't know official CCP positions as well as you think you do in order to differentiate my views with official CCP positions. Do I need to copy a few links where I disagreed with CCP official position? If you think my views are too much like CCP's, you should talk to more mainlanders. There's a way deeper rabbit hole out there. Yes I have a different opinion than the mainstream western one. So what? I can have my own legitimate, independently researched opinion, of which some parts may or may not align with other actors because that's what I happen to believe in based on research results. Who is "we" and "they"? The west vs China of course. This was, after all, the context to which I was replying to. Not sure how you missed that context.
    - calcifer 5y ago
      > Who is "we" and "they"? The west vs China of course. This was, after all, the context to which I was replying to. Not sure how you missed that context. My point was that "we" in your context clearly isn't the West as you are much more aligned with China. Honestly, your comments in this thread feel like astroturfing.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Taiwan is already an independent nation by all measures that anyone really cares about; the status quo is to their advantage. If China wants to change this, they are going to have to wage war by sending ships across the strait. Maybe the Taiwanese can defend their nation mostly by themselves; amphibious assault is not easy, even for major world powers. Even more difficult with satellites watching your (extensive) preparations. Even more difficult with hostile submarines prowling the seas. The PLA can't march to Taiwan.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    China does not have that much of a problem with the status quo. The status quo with the One China Policy has worked very well for decades. In fact, 2015, right before the DPP got to power, could be regarded as the height of cross-straight relations. Things only started going sour after the DPP started making moves towards true independence, and after the US sent increasing numbers of warships to China's back yard. It is not China that is deviating from the status quo.
    - clove 5y ago
      You are possibly the dumbest person on HN.
      - dang 5y ago
        Posting like this is a bannable offense on HN. You can't attack another user like this, no matter how strongly you disagree with them. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29739415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29739415 for a longer explanation.
- mcguire 5y ago
  The rest of the world has been giving on this issue for at least 30 years. How's that going?
- stale2002 5y ago
  > and they are willing to fight for it. No, they aren't. China has been making empty threats for literally decades. Yes, I am sure they will throw around more empty threats and not follow through on them. But this "red line" thing is just internal propaganda that they never actually follow through on. It is time the rest of the world stops pretending.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    That's because Taiwan had maintained the One China Policy. This worked very very well for decades. It's only recently when they are becoming more serious about true independence that things are souring. Furthermore, China can no longer afford to use empty threats when US warships are inceasingly sailing in China's backyard. Things weren't so militarily contested before.
    - stale2002 5y ago
      > China can no longer afford to use empty threats And yet it keeps making them, and no actually doing anything about any of this. It has been decades of empty threats. I am sure people said the same thing, the last time more empty threats for made. Yeah, no. Thats the facts. They keep making empty threats, and not following through on them, and they are still doing that to this day. > more serious about true independence Well, Taiwan is already truly independent, and that has been the case for decades. They have their own laws, borders, and taxes. That is what an independent country is. Furthermore, the official stance of the ruling party, is that they are already independent. Nothing really needs to change, for them to become independent, because that is already the case. > had maintained the One China Policy. They have their own taxes, laws and borders. They are already an independent country, actually. There is nothing to be maintained, other than some fantasy make believe lip service.
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago
        Of course they keep making them. They don't want bloodshed where it's not needed. But you seem to think that this trend can go on forever no matter what. That is a dangerous mistake. What's needed is deescalation, not more escalation in the faulty thinking that they will continue to do nothing no matter what happens.
sudosysgen 5y ago
This is naive. The government simply doesn't have that power. If they tried to downplay Taiwan people would be absolutely furious. The extent of "mind control" is really not that great. The internet exists, and despite imperfect controls people have access to information. It would probably take Xi down to try to abandon Taiwan.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Then maybe Xi should take more interest in the wellbeing of his people than in his personal political dynasty.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The obvious implication is that he will be replaced with someone that cares about Taiwan.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Serious question: Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? What do they want with it? What's the endgame plan? If the vision is that everyone will be living happily ever after under the PRC umbrella, I could see some flaws in that reasoning. Like a whole population that will probably take up arms guerilla-style. I've visited Taiwan and even wearing pro-CCP colours is frowned upon. If they just want the territory and not the people and it'll end up another XinJiang style "re-education" camp, well that's obviously something unsupportable. Also, of course Taiwan is so crucial to global supply chains that this has all the ingredients to become a world war in short order, which is pretty worrying.
  - manuelabeledo 5y ago
    > Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? They mostly don’t. It’s not that big of an issue outside politics and loudmouths, which sometimes converge. Taiwan is an excuse to add fire to patriotic indoctrination.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago

FooBarWidget 5y ago

My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. If we want an actual peaceful resolution then something has to give.

calcifer 5y ago
> If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. Who is we and they? Based on your Twitter profile, you're Chinese and your views seem perfectly aligned with the official CCP position.
- mthoms 5y ago
  This user is also known for ignoring/downplaying the sexual assault allegations of Peng Shuai against a CCP official. Be wary. View parent(s) of this comment for details of how this user attempted to FUD her accusations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 Absolutely disgusting.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    What's absolutely disgusting is you misrepresenting my views like that in order to smear me just because you don't like the fact that I have a different opinion about China. If you read that thread it is perfectly clear that I merely pointed out that different opinions about the situation exists without giving my own view, but that's not acceptable to you because you seek to doxx. To be perfectly clear, if that wasn't already so, I am against any kind of sexual assault and I support an investigation into corrupt officials. Thank you very much.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      You presented yourself as an authority (native speaker) and provided a translation + opinion of her statement. You omitted the part about her crying, etc. Why? And why do you refuse to you update us on your opinion now that the omission has been pointed out? Again, the question: does your opinion of her statement change when considering the panicked crying (that you casually omitted) which was pointed out by another user? >To be perfectly clear, if that wasn't already so, I am against any kind of sexual assault and I support an investigation into corrupt officials. Another dodge. The question isn't about generalities. It isn't about "different opinions about China". The question is about this very specific instance. (I didn't doxx you, your information is in your profile.)
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago
        I never said I'm an authority, I simply posted a link to a translation and I said I checked it. People can choose to listen to me, or not. You made up the strawman that I'm positioning myself as an authority. My post was never supposed to be a full summary, and I never claimed that it is, so it's very strange that you attack me for not fully summarizing. Passages such as crying, feeling like a zombie, etc are already covered by western media and people have likely already read that -- me pointing out all that again does not add anything useful. The intention from the beginning is to let people read the full thing, including translation nuances, and to let them read parts that they probably haven't read yet (or not in its original form), so that people can make up their own minds. That includes reading up about crying, and more importantly, how the passage about crying was written as well as the context in which that passage appears. I added some commentary after people asked me to comment on another translation and compare that with the first. But that commentary was secondary to the main goal, which is to let people read the original, full text and make up their own minds. Thus it is neither necessary nor a goal of that commentary to be a full analysis, and I never claimed that it was. Why are you so obsessed with this? Why is my opinion so much more important to you than what Peng Shuai herself wrote in full? What are you afraid of? Why do you not like the fact that I let others read the original source? I think there is only one possible answer: you have a specific opinion that you want to force on others, so you are alarmed by others being exposed to more and original information. That's some chilling 1984 thought police behavior right there.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  Then you clearly either haven't read enough of my tweets, or you don't know official CCP positions as well as you think you do in order to differentiate my views with official CCP positions. Do I need to copy a few links where I disagreed with CCP official position? If you think my views are too much like CCP's, you should talk to more mainlanders. There's a way deeper rabbit hole out there. Yes I have a different opinion than the mainstream western one. So what? I can have my own legitimate, independently researched opinion, of which some parts may or may not align with other actors because that's what I happen to believe in based on research results. Who is "we" and "they"? The west vs China of course. This was, after all, the context to which I was replying to. Not sure how you missed that context.
  - calcifer 5y ago
    > Who is "we" and "they"? The west vs China of course. This was, after all, the context to which I was replying to. Not sure how you missed that context. My point was that "we" in your context clearly isn't the West as you are much more aligned with China. Honestly, your comments in this thread feel like astroturfing.
stickfigure 5y ago
Taiwan is already an independent nation by all measures that anyone really cares about; the status quo is to their advantage. If China wants to change this, they are going to have to wage war by sending ships across the strait. Maybe the Taiwanese can defend their nation mostly by themselves; amphibious assault is not easy, even for major world powers. Even more difficult with satellites watching your (extensive) preparations. Even more difficult with hostile submarines prowling the seas. The PLA can't march to Taiwan.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  China does not have that much of a problem with the status quo. The status quo with the One China Policy has worked very well for decades. In fact, 2015, right before the DPP got to power, could be regarded as the height of cross-straight relations. Things only started going sour after the DPP started making moves towards true independence, and after the US sent increasing numbers of warships to China's back yard. It is not China that is deviating from the status quo.
  - clove 5y ago
    You are possibly the dumbest person on HN.
    - dang 5y ago
      Posting like this is a bannable offense on HN. You can't attack another user like this, no matter how strongly you disagree with them. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29739415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29739415 for a longer explanation.
mcguire 5y ago
The rest of the world has been giving on this issue for at least 30 years. How's that going?
stale2002 5y ago
> and they are willing to fight for it. No, they aren't. China has been making empty threats for literally decades. Yes, I am sure they will throw around more empty threats and not follow through on them. But this "red line" thing is just internal propaganda that they never actually follow through on. It is time the rest of the world stops pretending.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  That's because Taiwan had maintained the One China Policy. This worked very very well for decades. It's only recently when they are becoming more serious about true independence that things are souring. Furthermore, China can no longer afford to use empty threats when US warships are inceasingly sailing in China's backyard. Things weren't so militarily contested before.
  - stale2002 5y ago
    > China can no longer afford to use empty threats And yet it keeps making them, and no actually doing anything about any of this. It has been decades of empty threats. I am sure people said the same thing, the last time more empty threats for made. Yeah, no. Thats the facts. They keep making empty threats, and not following through on them, and they are still doing that to this day. > more serious about true independence Well, Taiwan is already truly independent, and that has been the case for decades. They have their own laws, borders, and taxes. That is what an independent country is. Furthermore, the official stance of the ruling party, is that they are already independent. Nothing really needs to change, for them to become independent, because that is already the case. > had maintained the One China Policy. They have their own taxes, laws and borders. They are already an independent country, actually. There is nothing to be maintained, other than some fantasy make believe lip service.
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago
      Of course they keep making them. They don't want bloodshed where it's not needed. But you seem to think that this trend can go on forever no matter what. That is a dangerous mistake. What's needed is deescalation, not more escalation in the faulty thinking that they will continue to do nothing no matter what happens.

sudosysgen 5y ago

This is naive. The government simply doesn't have that power. If they tried to downplay Taiwan people would be absolutely furious. The extent of "mind control" is really not that great. The internet exists, and despite imperfect controls people have access to information. It would probably take Xi down to try to abandon Taiwan.

stickfigure 5y ago
Then maybe Xi should take more interest in the wellbeing of his people than in his personal political dynasty.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The obvious implication is that he will be replaced with someone that cares about Taiwan.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
Serious question: Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? What do they want with it? What's the endgame plan? If the vision is that everyone will be living happily ever after under the PRC umbrella, I could see some flaws in that reasoning. Like a whole population that will probably take up arms guerilla-style. I've visited Taiwan and even wearing pro-CCP colours is frowned upon. If they just want the territory and not the people and it'll end up another XinJiang style "re-education" camp, well that's obviously something unsupportable. Also, of course Taiwan is so crucial to global supply chains that this has all the ingredients to become a world war in short order, which is pretty worrying.
- manuelabeledo 5y ago
  > Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? They mostly don’t. It’s not that big of an issue outside politics and loudmouths, which sometimes converge. Taiwan is an excuse to add fire to patriotic indoctrination.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago