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There is no need for Mr. Xi to formally give up on Taiwan. He could just kick the can down the road for another few decades, like all his much smarter predecess

There is no need for Mr. Xi to formally give up on Taiwan. He could just kick the can down the road for another few decades, like all his much smarter predecessors did. > China's people also believe that. Only because that is what they learn and hear (literally) daily, starting with kindergarten. Just reduce this crab step by step, and it will fade away. The same is true for this even more stupid 7-dash line. They draw this stuff only really, really every map you see in China.

sudosysgen 5y ago
He cannot kick the can down the road if the West forces a point of no return by suggesting the above. Chinese people initially saw Taiwan as part of China for historical reasons as well as a result of the civil war. Propaganda slows this from stopping, but the problem very much is not manufactured.
FooBarWidget 5y ago
Saying that viewing Taiwan that way as purely a consequence of propaganda is like saying that American patriotism, and the fact that Americans believe that the South's cecession is illegitimate or unrighteous, is purely a consequence of having taught people so since childhood. Yes education is a contributing factor. But it is my no means the only factor. Your take also ignores the fact that unification is Chinese core value, which is valued more than western freedom of speech, and that this core value has been around for thousands of years.
- petilon 5y ago
  > unification is Chinese core value Is warring with all neighbors a core value too? Chinese government, through censorship, controls the minds of the Chinese people. The government needs to update the core values.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. If we want an actual peaceful resolution then something has to give.
    - calcifer 5y ago
      > If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. Who is we and they? Based on your Twitter profile, you're Chinese and your views seem perfectly aligned with the official CCP position.
      - mthoms 5y ago
        This user is also known for ignoring/downplaying the sexual assault allegations of Peng Shuai against a CCP official. Be wary. View parent(s) of this comment for details of how this user attempted to FUD her accusations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 Absolutely disgusting.
        FooBarWidget 5y ago
        What's absolutely disgusting is you misrepresenting my views like that in order to smear me just because you don't like the fact that I have a different opinion about China. If you read that thread it is perfectly clear that I merely pointed out that different opinions about the situation exists without giving my own view, but that's not acceptable to you because you seek to doxx. To be perfectly clear, if that wasn't already so, I am against any kind of sexual assault and I support an investigation into corrupt officials. Thank you very much.
        mthoms 5y ago
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    This is naive. The government simply doesn't have that power. If they tried to downplay Taiwan people would be absolutely furious. The extent of "mind control" is really not that great. The internet exists, and despite imperfect controls people have access to information. It would probably take Xi down to try to abandon Taiwan.
    - stickfigure 5y ago
      Then maybe Xi should take more interest in the wellbeing of his people than in his personal political dynasty.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        The obvious implication is that he will be replaced with someone that cares about Taiwan.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Serious question: Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? What do they want with it? What's the endgame plan? If the vision is that everyone will be living happily ever after under the PRC umbrella, I could see some flaws in that reasoning. Like a whole population that will probably take up arms guerilla-style. I've visited Taiwan and even wearing pro-CCP colours is frowned upon. If they just want the territory and not the people and it'll end up another XinJiang style "re-education" camp, well that's obviously something unsupportable. Also, of course Taiwan is so crucial to global supply chains that this has all the ingredients to become a world war in short order, which is pretty worrying.
      - manuelabeledo 5y ago
        > Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? They mostly don’t. It’s not that big of an issue outside politics and loudmouths, which sometimes converge. Taiwan is an excuse to add fire to patriotic indoctrination.
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Unification with an unwilling partner is basically the same as imperialism.
- throwaway675309 5y ago
  Ridiculous. People always bring up the secession of the south but a far more accurate corollary would be if the citizens of Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, decided to formally declared independence and vote to become an autonomous nation from the United States. I think if you asked the average American living in the continental United States, that they would not care one iota if Puerto Rico suddenly became independent. And frankly it's the same for people living in mainland China - their day-to-day lives would change zero percentage if Taiwan was formally recognized. It's purely a matter of conditioned education delivered as part of the party system.

sudosysgen 5y ago

He cannot kick the can down the road if the West forces a point of no return by suggesting the above. Chinese people initially saw Taiwan as part of China for historical reasons as well as a result of the civil war. Propaganda slows this from stopping, but the problem very much is not manufactured.

FooBarWidget 5y ago

Saying that viewing Taiwan that way as purely a consequence of propaganda is like saying that American patriotism, and the fact that Americans believe that the South's cecession is illegitimate or unrighteous, is purely a consequence of having taught people so since childhood. Yes education is a contributing factor. But it is my no means the only factor. Your take also ignores the fact that unification is Chinese core value, which is valued more than western freedom of speech, and that this core value has been around for thousands of years.

petilon 5y ago
> unification is Chinese core value Is warring with all neighbors a core value too? Chinese government, through censorship, controls the minds of the Chinese people. The government needs to update the core values.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. If we want an actual peaceful resolution then something has to give.
  - calcifer 5y ago
    > If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force them into submission. Who is we and they? Based on your Twitter profile, you're Chinese and your views seem perfectly aligned with the official CCP position.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      This user is also known for ignoring/downplaying the sexual assault allegations of Peng Shuai against a CCP official. Be wary. View parent(s) of this comment for details of how this user attempted to FUD her accusations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29362031 Absolutely disgusting.
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago
        What's absolutely disgusting is you misrepresenting my views like that in order to smear me just because you don't like the fact that I have a different opinion about China. If you read that thread it is perfectly clear that I merely pointed out that different opinions about the situation exists without giving my own view, but that's not acceptable to you because you seek to doxx. To be perfectly clear, if that wasn't already so, I am against any kind of sexual assault and I support an investigation into corrupt officials. Thank you very much.
        mthoms 5y ago
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  This is naive. The government simply doesn't have that power. If they tried to downplay Taiwan people would be absolutely furious. The extent of "mind control" is really not that great. The internet exists, and despite imperfect controls people have access to information. It would probably take Xi down to try to abandon Taiwan.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    Then maybe Xi should take more interest in the wellbeing of his people than in his personal political dynasty.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      The obvious implication is that he will be replaced with someone that cares about Taiwan.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Serious question: Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? What do they want with it? What's the endgame plan? If the vision is that everyone will be living happily ever after under the PRC umbrella, I could see some flaws in that reasoning. Like a whole population that will probably take up arms guerilla-style. I've visited Taiwan and even wearing pro-CCP colours is frowned upon. If they just want the territory and not the people and it'll end up another XinJiang style "re-education" camp, well that's obviously something unsupportable. Also, of course Taiwan is so crucial to global supply chains that this has all the ingredients to become a world war in short order, which is pretty worrying.
    - manuelabeledo 5y ago
      > Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? They mostly don’t. It’s not that big of an issue outside politics and loudmouths, which sometimes converge. Taiwan is an excuse to add fire to patriotic indoctrination.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
GekkePrutser 5y ago
Unification with an unwilling partner is basically the same as imperialism.
throwaway675309 5y ago
Ridiculous. People always bring up the secession of the south but a far more accurate corollary would be if the citizens of Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, decided to formally declared independence and vote to become an autonomous nation from the United States. I think if you asked the average American living in the continental United States, that they would not care one iota if Puerto Rico suddenly became independent. And frankly it's the same for people living in mainland China - their day-to-day lives would change zero percentage if Taiwan was formally recognized. It's purely a matter of conditioned education delivered as part of the party system.