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Did your father work both jobs at the same time? I m sure answer is No. GP is talking abput a remote dev who was fooling 3 companies. A full time job means you

Did your father work both jobs at the same time? I m sure answer is No. GP is talking abput a remote dev who was fooling 3 companies. A full time job means you are available for that company at that time. Not concurrently.

hermannj314 5y ago
The original suggestion was to work 2 jobs. The post I replied to projected that (for some reason) into being a bad idea because of some story deceptive, poor-performing, contracting violating, three concurrent jobs. I stand by my statement. It is not wrong to work two jobs. That was the original claim despite what this other guy wanted to make it about.
- codegeek 5y ago
  But you used your father as an example and my question is if your father worked for both at the same time. That matters a lot. Your comparison is not appropriate because there is a huge difference between working a job and then working another job at a totally shift/time than working 2 remote jobs concurrently where you are supposed to be available for both.
  - hermannj314 5y ago
    My comparison is comparable because all the original post said was to work 2 jobs. This other post comes in and tries to equate working two jobs with contract violation. No - my dad worked one job during the day and the other at night. Why would you by default assume the worst in people? The original post was always about two jobs. Most people that work two jobs do so legally and ethically. What on Earth are you all on about adding all these extra conditions to prove the original poster wrong. He never said - get two jobs, work them at the same, make sure this violates your contract, do a poor job, and lie about it. You all trying to poison the water of this topic by equating it to something else entirely.
    - cj 5y ago
      Read a few posts on this blog and you might start to understand why people assume the worst: https://overemployed.com/ https://overemployed.com/
- cj 5y ago
  I'm "this other guy" you reference above. For what it's worth, even if he were working only 2 jobs rather than 3, that would have still broken our ability to trust him with any meaningful work. From an HR perspective, if someone lies about having a 2nd job, what else are the capable of lying about? > It is not wrong to work two jobs. 2 jobs vs. 3 jobs doesn't make much of a difference. It is wrong to work 2 jobs if you explicitly tell each company that you are their sole employer. The thing I don't understand is if someone really wants to work 2 or 3 jobs... why not do it by looking for 1099 contract work rather than chasing W2 roles?
  - hermannj314 5y ago
    Yeah, I am not doubting you did the right job firing this guy. But you brought the wrong anecdote to this debate. The original idea was about a 2nd job. Thats all. You are saying that shows bad reputation and moral compass and then trying to shoe horn in the idea that people with multiple jobs are liars and poor performers. Have you ever had to work two jobs? As someone that did and whose parents also did, I dont equate it with the worst in people. You do. I think that says something about the classes we each grew up in.
    - cj 5y ago
      Were you and your parents working 2 jobs on non-conflicting schedules? I think is perfectly acceptable to work 6-2pm and 2pm-8pm for 2 employers. But I don’t think it’s ethical to work 2 jobs where the hours are overlapping not on a staggered schedule. > Have you ever had to work two jobs Yes, when starting my startup. I woke up at 5am, worked until 9am on my startup, went to my day job and worked a full 8 hours, then came home and worked 6-10pm on the startup. After a couple weeks doing this, I let the CEO of my day job know, and requested they sign a contract saying anything I develop outside of regular business hours is owned by me and not my day job. They approved and signed the agreement. I left to build the startup full time 9 months later. The key here is just being honest and transparent. You can work 2 jobs, that alone isn’t the problem, the problem is working 2 jobs and going to great lengths hiding it from your employers, calling out sick for fake doctor appointments, fabricating stories as to why you aren’t getting your work done, claiming you have fake medical conditions that prevent you from joining meetings. The sad part is a few bad apples will ruin it for the rest of us. Remote is easy to abuse. The more it’s abused, the less likely companies are to continue embracing WFH post-COVID. The more it’s abused, the more companies will be compelled to do things like install remote monitoring software, etc. > the classes we each grew up in Not that it’s relevant, but I grew up with parents who wouldn’t even pay for a $25/mo gym membership, and told me to go find a job. Same with buying my first car as a teenager and paying gas/insurance. Thank god I dropped out of private college after 3 semesters, all of my loans were in my name, no help from the parents.
kortilla 5y ago
> A full time job means you are available for that company at that time. No it doesn’t. That’s completely dependent on what’s in the employment contract.
- codegeek 5y ago
  Ok . When you get a full time tech/dev job next time, try asking the employer if you can work for another company concurrently. I am talking full time W2 jobs with benefits not contracting or freelancing.

hermannj314 5y ago

The original suggestion was to work 2 jobs. The post I replied to projected that (for some reason) into being a bad idea because of some story deceptive, poor-performing, contracting violating, three concurrent jobs. I stand by my statement. It is not wrong to work two jobs. That was the original claim despite what this other guy wanted to make it about.

codegeek 5y ago
But you used your father as an example and my question is if your father worked for both at the same time. That matters a lot. Your comparison is not appropriate because there is a huge difference between working a job and then working another job at a totally shift/time than working 2 remote jobs concurrently where you are supposed to be available for both.
- hermannj314 5y ago
  My comparison is comparable because all the original post said was to work 2 jobs. This other post comes in and tries to equate working two jobs with contract violation. No - my dad worked one job during the day and the other at night. Why would you by default assume the worst in people? The original post was always about two jobs. Most people that work two jobs do so legally and ethically. What on Earth are you all on about adding all these extra conditions to prove the original poster wrong. He never said - get two jobs, work them at the same, make sure this violates your contract, do a poor job, and lie about it. You all trying to poison the water of this topic by equating it to something else entirely.
  - cj 5y ago
    Read a few posts on this blog and you might start to understand why people assume the worst: https://overemployed.com/ https://overemployed.com/
cj 5y ago
I'm "this other guy" you reference above. For what it's worth, even if he were working only 2 jobs rather than 3, that would have still broken our ability to trust him with any meaningful work. From an HR perspective, if someone lies about having a 2nd job, what else are the capable of lying about? > It is not wrong to work two jobs. 2 jobs vs. 3 jobs doesn't make much of a difference. It is wrong to work 2 jobs if you explicitly tell each company that you are their sole employer. The thing I don't understand is if someone really wants to work 2 or 3 jobs... why not do it by looking for 1099 contract work rather than chasing W2 roles?
- hermannj314 5y ago
  Yeah, I am not doubting you did the right job firing this guy. But you brought the wrong anecdote to this debate. The original idea was about a 2nd job. Thats all. You are saying that shows bad reputation and moral compass and then trying to shoe horn in the idea that people with multiple jobs are liars and poor performers. Have you ever had to work two jobs? As someone that did and whose parents also did, I dont equate it with the worst in people. You do. I think that says something about the classes we each grew up in.
  - cj 5y ago
    Were you and your parents working 2 jobs on non-conflicting schedules? I think is perfectly acceptable to work 6-2pm and 2pm-8pm for 2 employers. But I don’t think it’s ethical to work 2 jobs where the hours are overlapping not on a staggered schedule. > Have you ever had to work two jobs Yes, when starting my startup. I woke up at 5am, worked until 9am on my startup, went to my day job and worked a full 8 hours, then came home and worked 6-10pm on the startup. After a couple weeks doing this, I let the CEO of my day job know, and requested they sign a contract saying anything I develop outside of regular business hours is owned by me and not my day job. They approved and signed the agreement. I left to build the startup full time 9 months later. The key here is just being honest and transparent. You can work 2 jobs, that alone isn’t the problem, the problem is working 2 jobs and going to great lengths hiding it from your employers, calling out sick for fake doctor appointments, fabricating stories as to why you aren’t getting your work done, claiming you have fake medical conditions that prevent you from joining meetings. The sad part is a few bad apples will ruin it for the rest of us. Remote is easy to abuse. The more it’s abused, the less likely companies are to continue embracing WFH post-COVID. The more it’s abused, the more companies will be compelled to do things like install remote monitoring software, etc. > the classes we each grew up in Not that it’s relevant, but I grew up with parents who wouldn’t even pay for a $25/mo gym membership, and told me to go find a job. Same with buying my first car as a teenager and paying gas/insurance. Thank god I dropped out of private college after 3 semesters, all of my loans were in my name, no help from the parents.

kortilla 5y ago

> A full time job means you are available for that company at that time. No it doesn’t. That’s completely dependent on what’s in the employment contract.

codegeek 5y ago
Ok . When you get a full time tech/dev job next time, try asking the employer if you can work for another company concurrently. I am talking full time W2 jobs with benefits not contracting or freelancing.