4 ms·

Was his work performance suffering as a result? If not, what is the actual issue here?

cj 5y ago
Yes. His output was horrendous. I would have fired him anyway based just on that, but discovering he had multiple jobs expedited the firing (and clearly explained why his output was so poor).
- rokob 5y ago
  I’m curious how you found out he had multiple jobs? I agree 100% that someone should get fired if they aren’t doing the work. But it is typically illegal to fire someone just for moonlighting unless it is in their contract.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Why did it expedite the firing? Was he working for a competitor?
  - nsonha 5y ago
    obviously they lied about their time commitment in working hours, and it's not about the number of hours, it's about honesty and their lack of commitment as promised.
    - cj 5y ago
      This. I can't trust an engineer with our production AWS keys when they aren't honest about who they work for. (managing AWS infrastructure was part of his job description, and you need to be trustworthy to have AWS level access to customer data)
  - ImprovedSilence 5y ago
    Usually in the fine print of signing on to become a full time employee, there are clauses to ensure you are not working for anyone else unless approved by company.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  Fair enough. Just of curiosity, would you have fired him if his performance hadn't suffered?
  - cj 5y ago
    If I found out about it, yes, he'd be gone immediately even if he were our #1 engineer. It's impossible to trust someone with AWS production keys and access to customer data when they lie to you about something as simple as who they work for. People secretly working multiple jobs are looking for an easy way to make a lot of money. If it's within their ability to secretly work 2 jobs, is it also in their ability to download proprietary company info and sell it to a competitor?
    - someperson 5y ago
      But there's no legal issue with working multiple jobs in the US. Most employment agreements pay for 40 hours per week. What employees do with the rest of their time is none of the employer's business. They could be spending all that time driving an Uber, developing an open-source project, do contract/consultant work for a friend's startup, or just play video games. As long as the work is getting done, the employer has no recourse unless it gets outright stipulated in the actual contract. Your conflating of "working two software engineering jobs" and "stealing company data and selling it" doesn't make logical sense. Working multiple jobs is not an easy way to make a lot of money. It takes time and effort. Measuring employee productivity over "hours in chair" is the way to go.
      - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
        It doesn’t matter what’s legal, it matters what the company you work for thinks. Anything else is over analyzing the situation. The bottom line is working for two companies full time concurrently is abnormal and it’s not a stretch to imagine you’re not getting 100% of your employee while they juggle two jobs. I’d also fire the report if I discovered them working two jobs.
        5y ago

cj 5y ago

Yes. His output was horrendous. I would have fired him anyway based just on that, but discovering he had multiple jobs expedited the firing (and clearly explained why his output was so poor).

rokob 5y ago
I’m curious how you found out he had multiple jobs? I agree 100% that someone should get fired if they aren’t doing the work. But it is typically illegal to fire someone just for moonlighting unless it is in their contract.
kortilla 5y ago
Why did it expedite the firing? Was he working for a competitor?
- nsonha 5y ago
  obviously they lied about their time commitment in working hours, and it's not about the number of hours, it's about honesty and their lack of commitment as promised.
  - cj 5y ago
    This. I can't trust an engineer with our production AWS keys when they aren't honest about who they work for. (managing AWS infrastructure was part of his job description, and you need to be trustworthy to have AWS level access to customer data)
- ImprovedSilence 5y ago
  Usually in the fine print of signing on to become a full time employee, there are clauses to ensure you are not working for anyone else unless approved by company.
MathCodeLove 5y ago
Fair enough. Just of curiosity, would you have fired him if his performance hadn't suffered?
- cj 5y ago
  If I found out about it, yes, he'd be gone immediately even if he were our #1 engineer. It's impossible to trust someone with AWS production keys and access to customer data when they lie to you about something as simple as who they work for. People secretly working multiple jobs are looking for an easy way to make a lot of money. If it's within their ability to secretly work 2 jobs, is it also in their ability to download proprietary company info and sell it to a competitor?
  - someperson 5y ago
    But there's no legal issue with working multiple jobs in the US. Most employment agreements pay for 40 hours per week. What employees do with the rest of their time is none of the employer's business. They could be spending all that time driving an Uber, developing an open-source project, do contract/consultant work for a friend's startup, or just play video games. As long as the work is getting done, the employer has no recourse unless it gets outright stipulated in the actual contract. Your conflating of "working two software engineering jobs" and "stealing company data and selling it" doesn't make logical sense. Working multiple jobs is not an easy way to make a lot of money. It takes time and effort. Measuring employee productivity over "hours in chair" is the way to go.
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      It doesn’t matter what’s legal, it matters what the company you work for thinks. Anything else is over analyzing the situation. The bottom line is working for two companies full time concurrently is abnormal and it’s not a stretch to imagine you’re not getting 100% of your employee while they juggle two jobs. I’d also fire the report if I discovered them working two jobs.
      - 5y ago