4 ms·

I recently fired an engineer who was working 3 full time jobs all paying $130k+. He ended up getting busted by all 3 companies at once, and all 3 fired him. H

by cj 5y ago

I recently fired an engineer who was working 3 full time jobs all paying $130k+. He ended up getting busted by all 3 companies at once, and all 3 fired him. Hopefully he can find a new job that doesn’t check references. If you care about your reputation, or if you have the slightest moral compass, don’t do this.

ragnot 5y ago
How did you find him out? Just curious since if someone was that determined they would probably go to extra lengths (i.e. different physical computers per job, etc) to conceal it.
- nojito 5y ago
  It’s very easy to find this out. Just about any decent manager can sense it and if they care enough will follow through. I doubt anyone will reveal the how because it is becoming a cat and mouse game in my organization.
- cj 5y ago
  1. He took his LinkedIn down after being hired. You can't have a LinkedIn when you have 3 jobs. 2. His output was horrible. He was an obviously a good senior level developer. But it would take him a week to do something a -junior- engineer couple do in 2 days. 3. Lots of strange and unexpected absences. 4. On a number of occasions I asked how he solved a problem at a prior company, and he spoke about the company in present tense rather than past tense. (A slip up on his part) There were people a few other signs that were more subtle than the ones above... but ultimately I became suspicious about how such a good engineer's output was so bad, and had a theory he had multiple jobs. So I simply emailed his prior employer to make sure they were aware that he had resigned to work for our company. The CEO of his prior company (where he had been for 5+ years) was shocked to find out he worked for us. The 3rd company he found through YC Work at a Startup, and through that uncovered he had been applying for a 3rd job and actually accepted an offer from one of them and had begun work. There are whole blogs dedicated to how to pull this scam off (google it). But morals aside, I wouldn't recommend it simply because the stress of juggling remote meetings, standups, sprints between 3 companies is not easy.
  - codegeek 5y ago
    People like him are a reason why employers have to be more careful when hiring remote.
    - oblio 5y ago
      And a reason why it's going to be hard to maintain that remote paradise developers are hoping. Laws are generally not written for the average, decent person, but to stop the degenerates who would try to murder, destroy, etc, and wouldn't be punished otherwise. People cheat on remote tests and interviews, for example.
      - someperson 5y ago
        We just need to switch to measuring output. The industry is full of engineers working 9-5 then going home and spending 4 hours on a side-hustle or open-source project (plus another 10 hours on Saturday/Sunday). Those people can hold down two 40 hour a week software engineering positions. Timezone shifted, yes, but they can get their work done.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
throwawaywork14 5y ago
I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If you are constantly doing the work of multiple devs, you get zero reward in this industry. Instead, put that extra focus into side work and side projects. If you’re good enough you can even be honest with people. When taking on a contract you can say “I have another commitment and will be working between X and X on X days for you” as long as you get all the work done for your primary job it’s not immoral.
MathCodeLove 5y ago
Was his work performance suffering as a result? If not, what is the actual issue here?
- cj 5y ago
  Yes. His output was horrendous. I would have fired him anyway based just on that, but discovering he had multiple jobs expedited the firing (and clearly explained why his output was so poor).
  - rokob 5y ago
    I’m curious how you found out he had multiple jobs? I agree 100% that someone should get fired if they aren’t doing the work. But it is typically illegal to fire someone just for moonlighting unless it is in their contract.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    Why did it expedite the firing? Was he working for a competitor?
    - nsonha 5y ago
      obviously they lied about their time commitment in working hours, and it's not about the number of hours, it's about honesty and their lack of commitment as promised.
      - cj 5y ago
        This. I can't trust an engineer with our production AWS keys when they aren't honest about who they work for. (managing AWS infrastructure was part of his job description, and you need to be trustworthy to have AWS level access to customer data)
    - ImprovedSilence 5y ago
      Usually in the fine print of signing on to become a full time employee, there are clauses to ensure you are not working for anyone else unless approved by company.
hermannj314 5y ago
I 100% disagree. You are allowed to maintain multiple full-time jobs in the United States unless you have entered into a contract that says otherwise. My father worked two full-time jobs to raise my siblings and his reputation and moral compass is just fine. Many middle class families do it for survival. There is no shame in working hard.
- codegeek 5y ago
  Did your father work both jobs at the same time? I m sure answer is No. GP is talking abput a remote dev who was fooling 3 companies. A full time job means you are available for that company at that time. Not concurrently.
  - hermannj314 5y ago
    The original suggestion was to work 2 jobs. The post I replied to projected that (for some reason) into being a bad idea because of some story deceptive, poor-performing, contracting violating, three concurrent jobs. I stand by my statement. It is not wrong to work two jobs. That was the original claim despite what this other guy wanted to make it about.
    - codegeek 5y ago
      But you used your father as an example and my question is if your father worked for both at the same time. That matters a lot. Your comparison is not appropriate because there is a huge difference between working a job and then working another job at a totally shift/time than working 2 remote jobs concurrently where you are supposed to be available for both.
      - hermannj314 5y ago
        My comparison is comparable because all the original post said was to work 2 jobs. This other post comes in and tries to equate working two jobs with contract violation. No - my dad worked one job during the day and the other at night. Why would you by default assume the worst in people? The original post was always about two jobs. Most people that work two jobs do so legally and ethically. What on Earth are you all on about adding all these extra conditions to prove the original poster wrong. He never said - get two jobs, work them at the same, make sure this violates your contract, do a poor job, and lie about it. You all trying to poison the water of this topic by equating it to something else entirely.
tyingq 5y ago
Three jobs is definitely pushing past what's realistic. 120 of 168 available hours in a week, hah! But, the sort of industry pearl-clutching about holding 2 jobs is interesting, when employers think nothing of making you work extra hours without comp, or be "on call" without comp, intellectual property clauses for stuff done on personal time, non-compete clauses, etc.
- nnoitra 5y ago
  The employee has to be a saint but the employer can be Satan himself but they are excused.
- pashamur 5y ago
  Isn't there always a contracting option where you can take on as many jobs as you'd like?
xwdv 5y ago
You fired a crap employee putting out bad work. If I’m working multiple jobs yet still finishing my work and probably even doing better than some of the employees working for the company exclusively, I doubt you would be so quick to fire me. It’s no ones fucking business how many jobs I work. Focus on results. This is the remote work equivalent of on-site managers who want to see asses in chairs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by cj 5y ago

ragnot 5y ago

How did you find him out? Just curious since if someone was that determined they would probably go to extra lengths (i.e. different physical computers per job, etc) to conceal it.

nojito 5y ago
It’s very easy to find this out. Just about any decent manager can sense it and if they care enough will follow through. I doubt anyone will reveal the how because it is becoming a cat and mouse game in my organization.
cj 5y ago
1. He took his LinkedIn down after being hired. You can't have a LinkedIn when you have 3 jobs. 2. His output was horrible. He was an obviously a good senior level developer. But it would take him a week to do something a -junior- engineer couple do in 2 days. 3. Lots of strange and unexpected absences. 4. On a number of occasions I asked how he solved a problem at a prior company, and he spoke about the company in present tense rather than past tense. (A slip up on his part) There were people a few other signs that were more subtle than the ones above... but ultimately I became suspicious about how such a good engineer's output was so bad, and had a theory he had multiple jobs. So I simply emailed his prior employer to make sure they were aware that he had resigned to work for our company. The CEO of his prior company (where he had been for 5+ years) was shocked to find out he worked for us. The 3rd company he found through YC Work at a Startup, and through that uncovered he had been applying for a 3rd job and actually accepted an offer from one of them and had begun work. There are whole blogs dedicated to how to pull this scam off (google it). But morals aside, I wouldn't recommend it simply because the stress of juggling remote meetings, standups, sprints between 3 companies is not easy.
- codegeek 5y ago
  People like him are a reason why employers have to be more careful when hiring remote.
  - oblio 5y ago
    And a reason why it's going to be hard to maintain that remote paradise developers are hoping. Laws are generally not written for the average, decent person, but to stop the degenerates who would try to murder, destroy, etc, and wouldn't be punished otherwise. People cheat on remote tests and interviews, for example.
    - someperson 5y ago
      We just need to switch to measuring output. The industry is full of engineers working 9-5 then going home and spending 4 hours on a side-hustle or open-source project (plus another 10 hours on Saturday/Sunday). Those people can hold down two 40 hour a week software engineering positions. Timezone shifted, yes, but they can get their work done.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

throwawaywork14 5y ago

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If you are constantly doing the work of multiple devs, you get zero reward in this industry. Instead, put that extra focus into side work and side projects. If you’re good enough you can even be honest with people. When taking on a contract you can say “I have another commitment and will be working between X and X on X days for you” as long as you get all the work done for your primary job it’s not immoral.

MathCodeLove 5y ago

Was his work performance suffering as a result? If not, what is the actual issue here?

cj 5y ago
Yes. His output was horrendous. I would have fired him anyway based just on that, but discovering he had multiple jobs expedited the firing (and clearly explained why his output was so poor).
- rokob 5y ago
  I’m curious how you found out he had multiple jobs? I agree 100% that someone should get fired if they aren’t doing the work. But it is typically illegal to fire someone just for moonlighting unless it is in their contract.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Why did it expedite the firing? Was he working for a competitor?
  - nsonha 5y ago
    obviously they lied about their time commitment in working hours, and it's not about the number of hours, it's about honesty and their lack of commitment as promised.
    - cj 5y ago
      This. I can't trust an engineer with our production AWS keys when they aren't honest about who they work for. (managing AWS infrastructure was part of his job description, and you need to be trustworthy to have AWS level access to customer data)
  - ImprovedSilence 5y ago
    Usually in the fine print of signing on to become a full time employee, there are clauses to ensure you are not working for anyone else unless approved by company.

hermannj314 5y ago

I 100% disagree. You are allowed to maintain multiple full-time jobs in the United States unless you have entered into a contract that says otherwise. My father worked two full-time jobs to raise my siblings and his reputation and moral compass is just fine. Many middle class families do it for survival. There is no shame in working hard.

codegeek 5y ago
Did your father work both jobs at the same time? I m sure answer is No. GP is talking abput a remote dev who was fooling 3 companies. A full time job means you are available for that company at that time. Not concurrently.
- hermannj314 5y ago
  The original suggestion was to work 2 jobs. The post I replied to projected that (for some reason) into being a bad idea because of some story deceptive, poor-performing, contracting violating, three concurrent jobs. I stand by my statement. It is not wrong to work two jobs. That was the original claim despite what this other guy wanted to make it about.
  - codegeek 5y ago
    But you used your father as an example and my question is if your father worked for both at the same time. That matters a lot. Your comparison is not appropriate because there is a huge difference between working a job and then working another job at a totally shift/time than working 2 remote jobs concurrently where you are supposed to be available for both.
    - hermannj314 5y ago
      My comparison is comparable because all the original post said was to work 2 jobs. This other post comes in and tries to equate working two jobs with contract violation. No - my dad worked one job during the day and the other at night. Why would you by default assume the worst in people? The original post was always about two jobs. Most people that work two jobs do so legally and ethically. What on Earth are you all on about adding all these extra conditions to prove the original poster wrong. He never said - get two jobs, work them at the same, make sure this violates your contract, do a poor job, and lie about it. You all trying to poison the water of this topic by equating it to something else entirely.

tyingq 5y ago

Three jobs is definitely pushing past what's realistic. 120 of 168 available hours in a week, hah! But, the sort of industry pearl-clutching about holding 2 jobs is interesting, when employers think nothing of making you work extra hours without comp, or be "on call" without comp, intellectual property clauses for stuff done on personal time, non-compete clauses, etc.

nnoitra 5y ago
The employee has to be a saint but the employer can be Satan himself but they are excused.
pashamur 5y ago
Isn't there always a contracting option where you can take on as many jobs as you'd like?

xwdv 5y ago

You fired a crap employee putting out bad work. If I’m working multiple jobs yet still finishing my work and probably even doing better than some of the employees working for the company exclusively, I doubt you would be so quick to fire me. It’s no ones fucking business how many jobs I work. Focus on results. This is the remote work equivalent of on-site managers who want to see asses in chairs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]