5 ms·

In person with cash or stubhub.

exdsq 5y ago
Stubhub has a 10% fee for the buyer and a 15% fee for the seller. It also can’t guarantee tickets are valid, they do guarantee a refund to the buyer if they’re false though. This is more expensive and less safe than an NFT ticket.
- remram 5y ago
  Did anyone actually implement any blockchain-based ticketing? Why do you think the fee collected by a company doing that would be lower than StubHub? Importantly, wouldn't those tokens be... fungible...?
- duskwuff 5y ago
  And what makes you think that ticket sellers would implement such a system? The pure goodness of their hearts? (My understanding is that NFTs can be constructed to charge a fee on transfers. At least, this is what I've been told by people trying to promote their use for artwork...)
  - exdsq 5y ago
    This would require a smart contract, a react front-end to make the UX a little nicer, and a little maintenance. If I charge $1 fees per ticket tx I'd undercut the market and it wouldn't be that hard.
    - acdha 5y ago
      Do you think Ticketmaster charges so much because their copy of MySQL runs on crushed Ming vases? They charge as much as they do because they have removed a lot of competition from the market (see e.g. jwz - https://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2018/01/31.html https://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2018/01/31.html). There’s no reason why they would implement an NFT where they’d get less money — in fact, they’re the kind of unethical weasels who’d figure out as many ways to hide fees in the smart contracts and play games with the blockchain they use to maximize their take.
      - exdsq 5y ago
        This is the whole point of Web3. The idea that these centralized services can be replaced by peer-to-peer transactions over open source software and the digitization of assets like gig tickets as NFTs.
        acdha 5y ago
        Yes, and it shows why that vision is a pipe dream: Ticketmaster isn’t centralized by accident, or because there haven’t been hundreds of attempts to build competing services. They’re centralized because they spent many millions of dollars centralizing that market and related ones so they can extract as much money as possible. Blockchains not only don’t change that, they encourage it by so heavily favoring the richest participants. There’s no way an unethical incumbent would use that as you hope rather than how they’ve used everything else, and without access to the venues and artists in their network you’re going to be limited to the smallest places and bands. EDIT: remember, everyone not getting paid by them hates Ticketmaster. Their website has been terrible since the 90s and their random fees have been the subject of rants and jokes for just as long. There have been several generations of developers who thought tickets shouldn’t cost so much, knew their musician friends hated Ticketmaster, and said “hey I know Perl/PHP/Python/Node/etc. and could build a better website!” They all failed, and it would be really critical to ask what you’re bringing which is different and especially whether this is actually a technical problem or you have power to apply leverage to the business problems.
        oblio 5y ago
        Cui bono? Who benefits? Who makes money from that? No one who runs the infrastructure? Why would they build it?
- petesergeant 5y ago
  > 10% fee for the buyer and a 15% fee What are the gas fees and how do they compare to the average concert ticket?
  - exdsq 5y ago
    Very fair question! On Ethereum the fee would be stupid high. However Polygon has fees of around $0.02 so say I'm looking to make myself a bit of a profit for making the UX nicer with a website we'd be looking at around $1 fees.
- exdsq 5y ago
  I keep using this example in NFT arguments but no one has actually done it yet. Screw it, I’m going to launch this and prove it works (or admit my defeat lol). Time to open vscode.
- fwip 5y ago
  What do you think the transaction cost is in Ethereum for your NFT ticket? Cause from what I'm seeing right now, it's equal to the cost of your fancy concert ticket. 2 sales (one to the scalper, one to the sucker) means you've just paid 300% of the cost before the middleman even got paid.
  - exdsq 5y ago
    Literally around 2 cents if you use the Polygon network. Layer 2 solutions would be perfect for this because A. you can bundle ticket sales and B. you don't need tickets to sell immediately, it's okay to wait a couple minutes.
baby 5y ago
Now imagine that any industry can easily do the same thing stubhub did without reinventing the wheel every time.

Stubhub has a 10% fee for the buyer and a 15% fee for the seller. It also can’t guarantee tickets are valid, they do guarantee a refund to the buyer if they’re false though. This is more expensive and less safe than an NFT ticket.

remram 5y ago
Did anyone actually implement any blockchain-based ticketing? Why do you think the fee collected by a company doing that would be lower than StubHub? Importantly, wouldn't those tokens be... fungible...?
duskwuff 5y ago
And what makes you think that ticket sellers would implement such a system? The pure goodness of their hearts? (My understanding is that NFTs can be constructed to charge a fee on transfers. At least, this is what I've been told by people trying to promote their use for artwork...)
- exdsq 5y ago
  This would require a smart contract, a react front-end to make the UX a little nicer, and a little maintenance. If I charge $1 fees per ticket tx I'd undercut the market and it wouldn't be that hard.
  - acdha 5y ago
    Do you think Ticketmaster charges so much because their copy of MySQL runs on crushed Ming vases? They charge as much as they do because they have removed a lot of competition from the market (see e.g. jwz - https://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2018/01/31.html https://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2018/01/31.html). There’s no reason why they would implement an NFT where they’d get less money — in fact, they’re the kind of unethical weasels who’d figure out as many ways to hide fees in the smart contracts and play games with the blockchain they use to maximize their take.
    - exdsq 5y ago
      This is the whole point of Web3. The idea that these centralized services can be replaced by peer-to-peer transactions over open source software and the digitization of assets like gig tickets as NFTs.
      - acdha 5y ago
        Yes, and it shows why that vision is a pipe dream: Ticketmaster isn’t centralized by accident, or because there haven’t been hundreds of attempts to build competing services. They’re centralized because they spent many millions of dollars centralizing that market and related ones so they can extract as much money as possible. Blockchains not only don’t change that, they encourage it by so heavily favoring the richest participants. There’s no way an unethical incumbent would use that as you hope rather than how they’ve used everything else, and without access to the venues and artists in their network you’re going to be limited to the smallest places and bands. EDIT: remember, everyone not getting paid by them hates Ticketmaster. Their website has been terrible since the 90s and their random fees have been the subject of rants and jokes for just as long. There have been several generations of developers who thought tickets shouldn’t cost so much, knew their musician friends hated Ticketmaster, and said “hey I know Perl/PHP/Python/Node/etc. and could build a better website!” They all failed, and it would be really critical to ask what you’re bringing which is different and especially whether this is actually a technical problem or you have power to apply leverage to the business problems.
      - oblio 5y ago
        Cui bono? Who benefits? Who makes money from that? No one who runs the infrastructure? Why would they build it?
petesergeant 5y ago
> 10% fee for the buyer and a 15% fee What are the gas fees and how do they compare to the average concert ticket?
- exdsq 5y ago
  Very fair question! On Ethereum the fee would be stupid high. However Polygon has fees of around $0.02 so say I'm looking to make myself a bit of a profit for making the UX nicer with a website we'd be looking at around $1 fees.
exdsq 5y ago
I keep using this example in NFT arguments but no one has actually done it yet. Screw it, I’m going to launch this and prove it works (or admit my defeat lol). Time to open vscode.
fwip 5y ago
What do you think the transaction cost is in Ethereum for your NFT ticket? Cause from what I'm seeing right now, it's equal to the cost of your fancy concert ticket. 2 sales (one to the scalper, one to the sucker) means you've just paid 300% of the cost before the middleman even got paid.
- exdsq 5y ago
  Literally around 2 cents if you use the Polygon network. Layer 2 solutions would be perfect for this because A. you can bundle ticket sales and B. you don't need tickets to sell immediately, it's okay to wait a couple minutes.

baby 5y ago

Now imagine that any industry can easily do the same thing stubhub did without reinventing the wheel every time.