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> Educated Westerners generally know far less about China than educated Chinese people know about the West. Source? >Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically

> Educated Westerners generally know far less about China than educated Chinese people know about the West. Source? >Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media. If that's your argument, I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. You don't honestly believe the Chinese media feeds a more accurate view of the world to it's constituents do you? They literally outlaw information, and have what essentially constitutes a CCP controlled national intranet. If we were to rank China against ALL western nations for information and journalism freedom they'd be dead last: https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores Edit: I'd also like to point out that I, as an educated American, have worked with people from 12 different countries, for a number of years each, across 3 companies that have employed me. All within the U.S. borders. How many non-Western countries have such a wonderful amount of diversity?

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
> Source? I've interacted extensively with educated people in the West and China. The asymmetry is obvious. Most educated people in the West have almost no clue about China. Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture, and many use VPNs to get around the Great Firewall. > I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. The news in China is, of course, heavily biased. However, when it comes to coverage of China, the news media in Western countries does a terrible job. Coverage is extremely distorted, and focuses almost exclusively on whatever issues the current US government is pushing (Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.). Almost anything will be presented in a negative light. China builds a railway in Laos: is China trying to debt-trap Laos? China exports over a billion doses of vaccine: can we trust Chinese vaccines? I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding of China. The picture you'll get will be warped beyond recognition.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  > Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture So, anecdotally that's your experience, ok. I don't think a greater exposure to pop-culture necessarily makes on better equipped to talk about the ethics of censorship, forced labor, and the dangers of centralized systems. I'd wager as far as substantive information goes, the asymmetry you're describing doesn't exist. > I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding Most people, educated or not, know this. Thankfully we have access to the entire internet and the entire body of human literature, even among those not tech savvy enough to use a VPN. My argument is not 'cable news does a great job', my argument is 'the wests liberal access to information and wealth affords it's affluent and educated a more complete and clear picture of the world', which you are failing to rebut.
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    > So, anecdotally that's your experience Yes, anecdotally, almost every single educated person I know in the West is remarkably ignorant about China. They don't know even the most basic things, like the names of the major provinces or the names of cities with 15 million people. They couldn't tell you the first thing about Chinese history. When did the empire fall? They couldn't name one major Chinese literary figure in the last 500 years. I'm talking about people who are fairly international, who might speak a few different European languages. The sheer lack of knowledge is really striking. I don't think it's the case that the people I know are almost all anomalous in this way. Knowledge of China is simply near zilch in the West. Young, educated Chinese people practically all speak English to at least a basic level. That already gives them more knowledge about the West than the average educated Westerner has of China. > forced labor I'm assuming you're talking about Xinjiang. This is an issue that I am certain your average person in China understands far better than your average New York Times reader. The programs that are being labeled "forced labor" by the US government are fairly well known in China. With a lot of these types of China stories that hit the news from time to time in the West, you'll find that the average taxi driver in China knows more detail than what you'll read in Western newspapers. The idea that Westerners know what's going on in China better than people in China do is just hubris.

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

> Source? I've interacted extensively with educated people in the West and China. The asymmetry is obvious. Most educated people in the West have almost no clue about China. Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture, and many use VPNs to get around the Great Firewall. > I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. The news in China is, of course, heavily biased. However, when it comes to coverage of China, the news media in Western countries does a terrible job. Coverage is extremely distorted, and focuses almost exclusively on whatever issues the current US government is pushing (Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.). Almost anything will be presented in a negative light. China builds a railway in Laos: is China trying to debt-trap Laos? China exports over a billion doses of vaccine: can we trust Chinese vaccines? I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding of China. The picture you'll get will be warped beyond recognition.

BobbyJo 5y ago
> Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture So, anecdotally that's your experience, ok. I don't think a greater exposure to pop-culture necessarily makes on better equipped to talk about the ethics of censorship, forced labor, and the dangers of centralized systems. I'd wager as far as substantive information goes, the asymmetry you're describing doesn't exist. > I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding Most people, educated or not, know this. Thankfully we have access to the entire internet and the entire body of human literature, even among those not tech savvy enough to use a VPN. My argument is not 'cable news does a great job', my argument is 'the wests liberal access to information and wealth affords it's affluent and educated a more complete and clear picture of the world', which you are failing to rebut.
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  > So, anecdotally that's your experience Yes, anecdotally, almost every single educated person I know in the West is remarkably ignorant about China. They don't know even the most basic things, like the names of the major provinces or the names of cities with 15 million people. They couldn't tell you the first thing about Chinese history. When did the empire fall? They couldn't name one major Chinese literary figure in the last 500 years. I'm talking about people who are fairly international, who might speak a few different European languages. The sheer lack of knowledge is really striking. I don't think it's the case that the people I know are almost all anomalous in this way. Knowledge of China is simply near zilch in the West. Young, educated Chinese people practically all speak English to at least a basic level. That already gives them more knowledge about the West than the average educated Westerner has of China. > forced labor I'm assuming you're talking about Xinjiang. This is an issue that I am certain your average person in China understands far better than your average New York Times reader. The programs that are being labeled "forced labor" by the US government are fairly well known in China. With a lot of these types of China stories that hit the news from time to time in the West, you'll find that the average taxi driver in China knows more detail than what you'll read in Western newspapers. The idea that Westerners know what's going on in China better than people in China do is just hubris.