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You're assuming they didn't make more than $200 MM by evading regulations. I'm willing to bet they made significantly more than this and will continue to opera

You're assuming they didn't make more than $200 MM by evading regulations. I'm willing to bet they made significantly more than this and will continue to operate profitably as that is their business. This fine is barely 1% of their quarterly profits.

acdha 5y ago
I was responding specifically to this thread, which is not assuming malice but was arguing that bad software incentivized using WhatsApp. In that case, licensing or building anything would be cheaper. If this was done for malice, I agree that the fine would have minimal effect.
- OnlineGladiator 5y ago
  Fair point. My mistake.
  - acdha 5y ago
    No worries — I certainly wouldn’t rule out malice from them but in this case general IT mishaps seems entirely plausible.
xwolfi 5y ago
No I think it's never that simple. I would agree they shot themselves in the foot and it s fair game to assume as much, but in reality it was a sentiment of systemic impunity laced with laziness, most likely. This also means that since financial crime most arises out of opportunity rather than genetic predisposition, this would eventually have let to it if it had not already. The fact the SEC discovered it during investigations doesn't sound very good in that regard. And a lot of non finance people always dismiss fines because they sound small vs the whole group profit, but damn 200 mil it s a team entire year of profit and it would fuck me to hear the bank had to give it back because assholes couldnt get bothered to transcribe whatsapp into emails at the very least.
- OnlineGladiator 5y ago
  I hear these arguments over and over again. 'The fines are significant and surely it won't happen again!' And yet, the same things keep happening over and over and over again. Please point me towards some examples where these types of fines actually changed how companies do business, because as far as I can tell they keep getting fined for the same things over and over again and they keep making record profits! I can dig up examples where banks are fined hundreds of millions when they made billions. Why should I believe this is any different?
  - MR4D 5y ago
    Personally, I don’t think it matters what amount the fine is. Fundamentally, short of putting all your employees in a Faraday cage, it is not possible to prevent this activity. I think it can be reduced, and good software can help, but stamping it out is impossible. Please note that this comment only refers to this rule in general, not to the specific JPM instance.

acdha 5y ago

I was responding specifically to this thread, which is not assuming malice but was arguing that bad software incentivized using WhatsApp. In that case, licensing or building anything would be cheaper. If this was done for malice, I agree that the fine would have minimal effect.

OnlineGladiator 5y ago
Fair point. My mistake.
- acdha 5y ago
  No worries — I certainly wouldn’t rule out malice from them but in this case general IT mishaps seems entirely plausible.

xwolfi 5y ago

No I think it's never that simple. I would agree they shot themselves in the foot and it s fair game to assume as much, but in reality it was a sentiment of systemic impunity laced with laziness, most likely. This also means that since financial crime most arises out of opportunity rather than genetic predisposition, this would eventually have let to it if it had not already. The fact the SEC discovered it during investigations doesn't sound very good in that regard. And a lot of non finance people always dismiss fines because they sound small vs the whole group profit, but damn 200 mil it s a team entire year of profit and it would fuck me to hear the bank had to give it back because assholes couldnt get bothered to transcribe whatsapp into emails at the very least.

OnlineGladiator 5y ago
I hear these arguments over and over again. 'The fines are significant and surely it won't happen again!' And yet, the same things keep happening over and over and over again. Please point me towards some examples where these types of fines actually changed how companies do business, because as far as I can tell they keep getting fined for the same things over and over again and they keep making record profits! I can dig up examples where banks are fined hundreds of millions when they made billions. Why should I believe this is any different?
- MR4D 5y ago
  Personally, I don’t think it matters what amount the fine is. Fundamentally, short of putting all your employees in a Faraday cage, it is not possible to prevent this activity. I think it can be reduced, and good software can help, but stamping it out is impossible. Please note that this comment only refers to this rule in general, not to the specific JPM instance.